OT: latest climate news
NOAA: Earth Smashed A Record For Heat In May 2014, Effects To Worsen Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts say. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Monday said May's average temperature on Earth of 15.54 C beat the old record set four years ago. In April, the globe tied the 2010 record for that month. Records go back to 1880. Experts say there's a good chance global heat records will keep falling, especially next year because an El Nino weather event is brewing on top of man-made global warming. An El Nino is a warming of the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean that alters climate worldwide and usually spikes global temperatures. http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/06/23/2217233/noaa-earth-smashed-a-re...
Thanks, Rich. The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum. There are also recent charges that the temperature data has been artificially inflated. Unfortunately, its a bit difficult to trace the exact source of those charges. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:02 AM, Richard Tenney via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: NOAA: Earth Smashed A Record For Heat In May 2014, Effects To Worsen Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts say. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Monday said May's average temperature on Earth of 15.54 C beat the old record set four years ago. In April, the globe tied the 2010 record for that month. Records go back to 1880. Experts say there's a good chance global heat records will keep falling, especially next year because an El Nino weather event is brewing on top of man-made global warming. An El Nino is a warming of the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean that alters climate worldwide and usually spikes global temperatures. http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/06/23/2217233/noaa-earth-smashed-a-re... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Here is a contrary viewpoint. http://www.naturalnews.com/045695_global_warming_fabricated_data_scientific_... On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 AM, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Thanks, Rich. The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum. There are also recent charges that the temperature data has been artificially inflated. Unfortunately, its a bit difficult to trace the exact source of those charges. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:02 AM, Richard Tenney via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: NOAA: Earth Smashed A Record For Heat In May 2014, Effects To Worsen Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts say. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Monday said May's average temperature on Earth of 15.54 C beat the old record set four years ago. In April, the globe tied the 2010 record for that month. Records go back to 1880. Experts say there's a good chance global heat records will keep falling, especially next year because an El Nino weather event is brewing on top of man-made global warming. An El Nino is a warming of the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean that alters climate worldwide and usually spikes global temperatures. http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/06/23/2217233/noaa-earth-smashed-a-re... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
A contrary viewpoint it certainly is. Sound scientific analysis it certainly is not. But many of the comments below the article are rather amusing. /R ________________________________ From: Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> To: Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com>; Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com>; Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com>; Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news Here is a contrary viewpoint. http://www.naturalnews.com/045695_global_warming_fabricated_data_scientific_... On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 AM, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Thanks, Rich. The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum. There are also recent charges that the temperature data has been artificially inflated. Unfortunately, its a bit difficult to trace the exact source of those charges. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:02 AM, Richard Tenney via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: NOAA: Earth Smashed A Record For Heat In May 2014, Effects To Worsen Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts say. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Monday said May's average temperature on Earth of 15.54 C beat the old record set four years ago. In April, the globe tied the 2010 record for that month. Records go back to 1880. Experts say there's a good chance global heat records will keep falling, especially next year because an El Nino weather event is brewing on top of man-made global warming. An El Nino is a warming of the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean that alters climate worldwide and usually spikes global temperatures. http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/06/23/2217233/noaa-earth-smashed-a-re... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
NASA is faking climate data? The article you're sharing is based on this guy's personal blog: http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-... He's neither a climate scientist, nor a credible science reporter, nor is his name "Steve Goddard." (He's actually Tony Heller.) http://climatecrocks.com/2011/09/14/new-lows-sea-ice-and-steven-goddard-cred... http://reallysciency.blogspot.com/p/who-is-steven-goddard.html http://www.desmogblog.com/steven-goddard https://uknowispeaksense.wordpress.com/tag/steve-goddard/ I can see from the article he posted that he's created a GIF animation of a combination of graphs of US temps + global temps but trying to pass them off as evidence that US temps have been faked. Moreover, nothing in this article squares with the observed accelerating loss of arctic sea ice, the retreat of glaciers worldwide or the rapid shifts in climate zones within global ecosystems. It simply doesn't make any sense that some kind of far-reaching conspiracy is working to deliberately fake climate science data in a world where information is so freely available and where a scientist's career and prestige is enhanced by exposing errors in previously accepted paradigms, not by how well they preserve dogma. No one is saying this is a simple subject - but the fact that climate science is complex doesn't mean we cannot declare what is known beyond any reasonable doubt: Is CO2 a greenhouse gas? Yes. Is the human combustion of fossil fuels responsible for significantly increasing the atmospheric content of CO2? Yes. Are temperatures (land, ocean and air) showing a significant, accelerating, decade-to-decade increase? Yes. Is this temperature rise causing the climate to change much faster than any previous natural climate change? Yes. Have natural explanations of climate change been investigated and found not to be responsible for this change? Yes. A more useful conversation would be what we do with the information presented to us by climate scientists, rather than whether or not climate science is real. Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:25 PM To: Brent Watson; Richard Tenney; Utah-Astronomy; Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news Here is a contrary viewpoint. http://www.naturalnews.com/045695_global_warming_fabricated_data_scientific_... On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 AM, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Thanks, Rich. The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum. There are also recent charges that the temperature data has been artificially inflated. Unfortunately, its a bit difficult to trace the exact source of those charges. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:02 AM, Richard Tenney via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: NOAA: Earth Smashed A Record For Heat In May 2014, Effects To Worsen Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts say. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Monday said May's average temperature on Earth of 15.54 C beat the old record set four years ago. In April, the globe tied the 2010 record for that month. Records go back to 1880. Experts say there's a good chance global heat records will keep falling, especially next year because an El Nino weather event is brewing on top of man-made global warming. An El Nino is a warming of the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean that alters climate worldwide and usually spikes global temperatures. http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/06/23/2217233/noaa-earth-smashed-a-re... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Nothing gets folks going like a good controversy. Is the earth warming - probably. Is the data being fudged (altered) - probably. Can we trust government - probably not. Just look at the scandals that are common place today. Where does the truth lie? That is the reason for this conversation. Again, thanks to everyone for being civil about it, unlike the comments at the end of the referenced article. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:50 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: NASA is faking climate data? The article you're sharing is based on this guy's personal blog: http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-... He's neither a climate scientist, nor a credible science reporter, nor is his name "Steve Goddard." (He's actually Tony Heller.) http://climatecrocks.com/2011/09/14/new-lows-sea-ice-and-steven-goddard-cred... http://reallysciency.blogspot.com/p/who-is-steven-goddard.html http://www.desmogblog.com/steven-goddard https://uknowispeaksense.wordpress.com/tag/steve-goddard/ I can see from the article he posted that he's created a GIF animation of a combination of graphs of US temps + global temps but trying to pass them off as evidence that US temps have been faked. Moreover, nothing in this article squares with the observed accelerating loss of arctic sea ice, the retreat of glaciers worldwide or the rapid shifts in climate zones within global ecosystems. It simply doesn't make any sense that some kind of far-reaching conspiracy is working to deliberately fake climate science data in a world where information is so freely available and where a scientist's career and prestige is enhanced by exposing errors in previously accepted paradigms, not by how well they preserve dogma. No one is saying this is a simple subject - but the fact that climate science is complex doesn't mean we cannot declare what is known beyond any reasonable doubt: Is CO2 a greenhouse gas? Yes. Is the human combustion of fossil fuels responsible for significantly increasing the atmospheric content of CO2? Yes. Are temperatures (land, ocean and air) showing a significant, accelerating, decade-to-decade increase? Yes. Is this temperature rise causing the climate to change much faster than any previous natural climate change? Yes. Have natural explanations of climate change been investigated and found not to be responsible for this change? Yes. A more useful conversation would be what we do with the information presented to us by climate scientists, rather than whether or not climate science is real. Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:25 PM To: Brent Watson; Richard Tenney; Utah-Astronomy; Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news Here is a contrary viewpoint. http://www.naturalnews.com/045695_global_warming_fabricated_data_scientific_... On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 AM, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Thanks, Rich. The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum. There are also recent charges that the temperature data has been artificially inflated. Unfortunately, its a bit difficult to trace the exact source of those charges. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:02 AM, Richard Tenney via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: NOAA: Earth Smashed A Record For Heat In May 2014, Effects To Worsen Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts say. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Monday said May's average temperature on Earth of 15.54 C beat the old record set four years ago. In April, the globe tied the 2010 record for that month. Records go back to 1880. Experts say there's a good chance global heat records will keep falling, especially next year because an El Nino weather event is brewing on top of man-made global warming. An El Nino is a warming of the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean that alters climate worldwide and usually spikes global temperatures. http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/06/23/2217233/noaa-earth-smashed-a-re... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat. Grins, patrick
It's more nuanced than idiots in aluminum hats saying the world is flat. On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:40 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote: On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat. Grins, patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Oh look http://www.worldfuturecouncil.org/fjcrimes.html http://www.desmogblog.com/global-warming-denier-database http://gawker.com/arrest-climate-change-deniers-1553719888 http://theconversation.com/is-misinformation-about-the-climate-criminally-n egligent-23111 http://www.martindurkin.com/blogs/nazi-greens-inconvenient-history On 6/24/14, 7:03 PM, "Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
It's more nuanced than idiots in aluminum hats saying the world is flat.
On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:40 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick
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When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion. The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up. Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please. On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Please, Brian, stick around. It will die off soon. I've just been ignoring most of it, myself. Now, I'm off to polish-up my aluminum hat. C. On Jun 24, 2014 9:24 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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At one point %97 (I made that number up) of scientists “believed” that the earth was the center of the universe. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/18/world/honoring-a-heretic-whom-vatican-reg rets-burning.html Turns out, they were wrong. Just something to think about. On 6/24/14, 9:44 PM, "Chuck Hards" <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Brian, stick around. It will die off soon. I've just been ignoring most of it, myself.
Now, I'm off to polish-up my aluminum hat.
C. On Jun 24, 2014 9:24 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Exactly why we should pay attention to scientists today, rather than the "religionists". (The Vatican, also known as home to a major religion, regrets burning scientist.) We can believe what the Ideological centers of today say, or we can continue to support science, even as it learns new things, and (major point!) learns where it was wrong, and moves forward to what new information, new research and additional data tell us..... On Jun 24, 2014, at 10:59 PM, Brian Sheets <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
At one point %97 (I made that number up) of scientists “believed” that the earth was the center of the universe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/18/world/honoring-a-heretic-whom-vatican-reg rets-burning.html
Turns out, they were wrong.
Just something to think about.
On 6/24/14, 9:44 PM, "Chuck Hards" <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Brian, stick around. It will die off soon. I've just been ignoring most of it, myself.
Now, I'm off to polish-up my aluminum hat.
C. On Jun 24, 2014 9:24 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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At the time when prevailing belief was in a geocentric universe there were no scientists (natural philosophers) as defined in modern terms. Even Isaac Newton spent much of his time delving into religious chronology and alchemical pursuits. Luckily, we do have the legacy of his scientific endeavors. The basis of science is a naturalistic, theoretic explanation based on the data gathered. One’s belief is irrelevant. Dave On Jun 24, 2014, at 23:57, Josephine Grahn <jograhn@gmail.com> wrote:
Exactly why we should pay attention to scientists today, rather than the "religionists". (The Vatican, also known as home to a major religion, regrets burning scientist.) We can believe what the Ideological centers of today say, or we can continue to support science, even as it learns new things, and (major point!) learns where it was wrong, and moves forward to what new information, new research and additional data tell us.....
On Jun 24, 2014, at 10:59 PM, Brian Sheets <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
At one point %97 (I made that number up) of scientists “believed” that the earth was the center of the universe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/18/world/honoring-a-heretic-whom-vatican-reg rets-burning.html
Turns out, they were wrong.
Just something to think about.
On 6/24/14, 9:44 PM, "Chuck Hards" <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Brian, stick around. It will die off soon. I've just been ignoring most of it, myself.
Now, I'm off to polish-up my aluminum hat.
C. On Jun 24, 2014 9:24 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Chances are I'd of said I believed it too if the alternate was being turned into barbecue. Grins, patrick On 24 Jun 2014, at 21:59, Brian Sheets <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
At one point %97 (I made that number up) of scientists “believed” that the earth was the center of the universe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/18/world/honoring-a-heretic-whom-vatican-reg rets-burning.html
Turns out, they were wrong.
Just something to think about.
On 24 Jun 2014, at 21:44, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Brian, stick around. It will die off soon. I've just been ignoring most of it, myself.
Yeah, that's what the delete key is for. I use it a lot. :)
Now, I'm off to polish-up my aluminum hat.
Oh my! You've upgraded from tin foil to aluminum. Impressive. BTW, for those who would like to make such a hat (including one for your cell phone): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr6rp0HYgQ8 (I'm not sure, but he almost sounds serious) patrick
I was involved in the 80's in the Greenland Ice Core Temperature History Data. The Sargasso Sea temperature history data also supports the Greenland data. Both of these data sets show warming since the 1700's but it just appears to be normal cyclical data since the earth was warmer during the Medieval Warming Period around 1100 AD before cooling into what was known as the Little Ice Age in the 1700's. The earth was also substantially warmer during portions of the Roman era than it is today after coming out of the last Ice Age about 10,000 years ago. These data sets are objective as opposed to subjective tree ring data that has been averaged into many charts by proponents of man caused global warming. Averaging subjective data with objective data is questionable science. Both data sets should be presented separately. The question is: How much of current warming is caused by fossil fuels and how much is caused by natural cyclical changes?
Don: Yes, you can always hide behind the uncertainty of the statistics. But there are several facts that are beyond doubt. 1. There is a lot more CO2 in the air than there was 300 years ago, and it all came from burning coal and oil. 2. We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and we can measure it's effect in the lab. Dead simple college chemistry. 3. We know WHY CO2 raises temperature in gases, It's simple physics. beyond doubt. 4. We can see the effect on the planet Venus, just to keep this an astro topic. What we are left quibbling about is whether it has started happening YET. So how close to the edge of doom are we supposed to ride before it's time to stop burning carbon? DT
________________________________ From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
I was involved in the 80's in the Greenland Ice Core Temperature History Data. The Sargasso Sea temperature history data also supports the Greenland data. Both of these data sets show warming since the 1700's but it just appears to be normal cyclical data since the earth was warmer during the Medieval Warming Period around 1100 AD before cooling into what was known as the Little Ice Age in the 1700's. The earth was also substantially warmer during portions of the Roman era than it is today after coming out of the last Ice Age about 10,000 years ago. These data sets are objective as opposed to subjective tree ring data that has been averaged into many charts by proponents of man caused global warming. Averaging subjective data with objective data is questionable science. Both data sets should be presented separately.
The question is: How much of current warming is caused by fossil fuels and how much is caused by natural cyclical changes?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Didn't see you complaining about name calling and/or disparaging comments when certain board members were doing just that to a pro-global warming poster. If its objectionable, its objectionable ALL the time. Challenging the credentials of a "source" or author of a blog is always appropriate. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:35:36 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion. The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up. Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please. On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Had I read it I would have. But rare is the instance where influential "climate change deniers" would like to arrest, jail, prosecute and or/execute climate change deniers. This is the rhetoric that worries me. ________________________________________ From: Utah-Astronomy [utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CenturyLink Customer [jcarman6@q.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:30 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news Didn't see you complaining about name calling and/or disparaging comments when certain board members were doing just that to a pro-global warming poster. If its objectionable, its objectionable ALL the time. Challenging the credentials of a "source" or author of a blog is always appropriate. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:35:36 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion. The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up. Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please. On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/23/did-nasanoaa-dramatically-alter-us-tempe On 6/25/14, 1:08 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
Had I read it I would have.
But rare is the instance where influential "climate change deniers" would like to arrest, jail, prosecute and or/execute climate change deniers. This is the rhetoric that worries me.
________________________________________ From: Utah-Astronomy [utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CenturyLink Customer [jcarman6@q.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:30 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
Didn't see you complaining about name calling and/or disparaging comments when certain board members were doing just that to a pro-global warming poster. If its objectionable, its objectionable ALL the time. Challenging the credentials of a "source" or author of a blog is always appropriate.
Joan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:35:36 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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I appreciate you posting that link. Apparently Steven Gooddard(Tony Heller) got called on mistakes he made in the blog and according to Anthony Watts (whoever he is) is too stubborn to correct them. Below the article, were some "related topics" also by Ronald Bailey. Seems like he writes a weekly column. http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/12/global-temperature-trend-update-third-wa As to executing climate change deniers, I'll admit there are times when I would just love to, well, if not kill, certainly seriously injury someone who has ticked me off. Doesn't mean I would ever really do it, but I can imagine it. Yet I see visions of the old newsreel footage of George Wallace standing on the school steps saying, not in my town, when blacks attempted to integrate southern schools. Sometimes extreme measures are necesssary to drag, kicking and screaming, some people into a new situation. I seriously doubt American law would actually condon execution of certain people, but we can all dream - no matter which side of the debate you are on. lol. I don't mean to make light of the rhetoric, but if mankind is to have any change, drastic measures may have to be taken. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:54:55 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/23/did-nasanoaa-dramatically-alter-us-tempe On 6/25/14, 1:08 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
Had I read it I would have.
But rare is the instance where influential "climate change deniers" would like to arrest, jail, prosecute and or/execute climate change deniers. This is the rhetoric that worries me.
________________________________________ From: Utah-Astronomy [utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CenturyLink Customer [jcarman6@q.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:30 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
Didn't see you complaining about name calling and/or disparaging comments when certain board members were doing just that to a pro-global warming poster. If its objectionable, its objectionable ALL the time. Challenging the credentials of a "source" or author of a blog is always appropriate.
Joan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:35:36 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C. Dave On Jun 26, 2014, at 0:06, CenturyLink Customer <jcarman6@q.com> wrote:
I appreciate you posting that link. Apparently Steven Gooddard(Tony Heller) got called on mistakes he made in the blog and according to Anthony Watts (whoever he is) is too stubborn to correct them. Below the article, were some "related topics" also by Ronald Bailey. Seems like he writes a weekly column.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/12/global-temperature-trend-update-third-wa
As to executing climate change deniers, I'll admit there are times when I would just love to, well, if not kill, certainly seriously injury someone who has ticked me off. Doesn't mean I would ever really do it, but I can imagine it. Yet I see visions of the old newsreel footage of George Wallace standing on the school steps saying, not in my town, when blacks attempted to integrate southern schools. Sometimes extreme measures are necesssary to drag, kicking and screaming, some people into a new situation. I seriously doubt American law would actually condon execution of certain people, but we can all dream - no matter which side of the debate you are on. lol.
I don't mean to make light of the rhetoric, but if mankind is to have any change, drastic measures may have to be taken.
Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:54:55 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/23/did-nasanoaa-dramatically-alter-us-tempe
On 6/25/14, 1:08 PM, "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> wrote:
Had I read it I would have.
But rare is the instance where influential "climate change deniers" would like to arrest, jail, prosecute and or/execute climate change deniers. This is the rhetoric that worries me.
________________________________________ From: Utah-Astronomy [utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CenturyLink Customer [jcarman6@q.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:30 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
Didn't see you complaining about name calling and/or disparaging comments when certain board members were doing just that to a pro-global warming poster. If its objectionable, its objectionable ALL the time. Challenging the credentials of a "source" or author of a blog is always appropriate.
Joan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sheets" <brians@fl240.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:35:36 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news
When all else fails, degrade the conversation to name calling and/or disparaging comments towards those who choose to have a differing opinion.
The end result will be with a ³climate change² inquisition and a body count where most if not all totalitarian ³we know better than you² societies end up.
Moderator¹s, Unsubscribe please.
On 6/24/14, 6:38 PM, "Wiggins Patrick" <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 24 Jun 2014, at 09:14, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The news stories continue to beat both sides of the drum.
Sometimes I wonder if the folks at the Flat Earth Society got as much press as the climate deniers there'd be a lot of folks believing the Earth is flat.
Grins,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-) I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me. I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject. Can I get a second? Thanks for your time. Bat-sh!t crazy C. On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
Chuck, I'll second that - I ran out of popcorn. Ed ----------------------------- Quoting Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com>:
Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-)
I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me.
I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject.
Can I get a second?
Thanks for your time.
Bat-sh!t crazy C.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
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Absolutely, a second. I’ll be off in a few days and already the clouds are rolling in. I just think about imaging or there’s a new moon and bam. Dave On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:51, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-)
I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me.
I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject.
Can I get a second?
Thanks for your time.
Bat-sh!t crazy C.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
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Good timing for clouds and cooler weather anyway. We are heading over to Jordan Landing tomorrow night for 3 hours of free live music. My favorite local band, "The Neighbors", is playing. www.theneighbors.biz They are a bunch of guys in my demographic, who have known each other and played together since high-school in the early 70s. They play old rock-and-roll songs from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, as well as a few original numbers by band members. Yes, they play a few Tull songs (I gave them 5 copies of the Tull songbook a few years ago), and are just a talented bunch of guys. Some have had careers in the music industry. We always enjoy them every summer, they play up to a half dozen free shows each year. By the time the concert is finished, and it's truly dark (around 10-ish), I'll be ready for bed anyway. Bring a folding chair if you want to come to Jordan Landing tomorrow night. 7-10 PM, in the courtyard just east of the theaters. Free! On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
Absolutely, a second. I’ll be off in a few days and already the clouds are rolling in. I just think about imaging or there’s a new moon and bam.
Table the conversation. I have gotten the information I was seeking, I believe the conversation has been very amiable, and I commend all involved. Thanks for the information. On Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:21 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote: Absolutely, a second. I’ll be off in a few days and already the clouds are rolling in. I just think about imaging or there’s a new moon and bam. Dave On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:51, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-)
I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me.
I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject.
Can I get a second?
Thanks for your time.
Bat-sh!t crazy C.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
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It’s (the conversation) has been better this time around than the last few times, that’s for sure. I’m back to reading for pleasure. Have fun at the concert, Chuck. Dave On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:35, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Table the conversation. I have gotten the information I was seeking, I believe the conversation has been very amiable, and I commend all involved. Thanks for the information.
On Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:21 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
Absolutely, a second. I’ll be off in a few days and already the clouds are rolling in. I just think about imaging or there’s a new moon and bam.
Dave
On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:51, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-)
I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me.
I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject.
Can I get a second?
Thanks for your time.
Bat-sh!t crazy C.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
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But WAIT! I was just making my wind-up for my fast ball pitch! :) Who called the game before the 9th inning? :) LOL -Barrett :) www.FallenStarHunters.com www.BarrettsCustomLeather.com -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:36 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news Table the conversation. I have gotten the information I was seeking, I believe the conversation has been very amiable, and I commend all involved. Thanks for the information. On Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:21 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote: Absolutely, a second. I’ll be off in a few days and already the clouds are rolling in. I just think about imaging or there’s a new moon and bam. Dave On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:51, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-)
I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me.
I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject.
Can I get a second?
Thanks for your time.
Bat-sh!t crazy C.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Seconded. But I think this time we proved we can handle it without anyone flying off the handle. -- Joe On Thursday, June 26, 2014 4:54 PM, BWFlowers <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote: But WAIT! I was just making my wind-up for my fast ball pitch! :) Who called the game before the 9th inning? :) LOL -Barrett :) www.FallenStarHunters.com www.BarrettsCustomLeather.com -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:36 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: latest climate news Table the conversation. I have gotten the information I was seeking, I believe the conversation has been very amiable, and I commend all involved. Thanks for the information. On Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:21 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote: Absolutely, a second. I’ll be off in a few days and already the clouds are rolling in. I just think about imaging or there’s a new moon and bam. Dave On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:51, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, in my case it's congenital, not environmental. ;-)
I have strong feelings on the subject of human-influenced climate change, but, like politics and religion, refuse to debate it since it's pointless. I want to stay friends with those I care deeply about who happen to have a viewpoint different from mine. The general public only debates such things in order to try and convince those with an opposite viewpoint to change their minds; there is little motivation to actually seek opposing evidence on such things, especially if it takes one out of their comfort zone or flies in the face of other close-held beliefs. I personally know of only two or three people who are academically qualified to discuss this issue intelligently with minimal or no bias, no financial stake in a national or global outcome to the debate, and truly understand statistical methods and the primary science behind it. I won't even talk about it with them, risking good will and fellowship isn't worth it. And I'm not anywhere nearly as educated as they, they have little motivation or reason to discuss it with me.
I move that the subject be tabled. Despite the desire for a "civil" discussion, I can't see it happening, due to human nature, and think it a bit naive to think that it can. It's come up before and no consensus was reached, no minds were changed. I've certainly had enough on this astronomy list-serve. There are online forums specifically devoted to this subject for those who want to carry-on with the subject.
Can I get a second?
Thanks for your time.
Bat-sh!t crazy C.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I think the American public is so wrong on so many scientific topics that if I let myself think about it for too long I’d be as bat-sh*t crazy as Chuck….err, I mean C.
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways- What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level? When I was in grade school, early 1960's our science teacher said that it was GOLD and I have wondered about it all these years. Personally I'd be willing to bet that gold is NOT CORRECT, or is it? The reason I think gold is not correct is that gold is used in a lot of higher end welding lenses to darken the lens against the electrical arc and is offered in various "tints" to suit the individual. On the other hand, he may in fact have been correct and that is exactly why gold is used. Thin can defined in terms of layers of molecules (100 molecules thick, etc) or an actual thickness like 1/10th of a hair thick or .00003" Expressing it in some (off-the-wall) scientific term wouldn't do a lot of good if I have no frame of reference (yeah, I'm not the smartest brick in the wall). Also I assume that the power of the light source would enter into it, so to keep the playing field level on that, let's say direct sunlight as the source. Hmmm... brings up another question- How many candlepower is the sun? To narrow the parameters a bit more, the brightness of the sunlight at sea level or here in SLC at approx 4,000 ft ASL. Well, might as well ask this also- what element is the most transparent? I'll assume it is hydrogen unless corrected, but is it fair to compare a gas to a solid? So I will amend the question to what SOLID element at room temperature (70 degree F.) is the most transparent? Thanks! -Barrett www.FallenStarHunters.com www.BarrettsCustomLeather.com
On Thu, June 26, 2014 21:04, BWFlowers wrote:
Well, might as well ask this also- what element is the most transparent? I'll assume it is hydrogen unless corrected, but is it fair to compare a gas to a solid? So I will amend the question to what SOLID element at room temperature (70 degree F.) is the most transparent?
For information about how transparency of solid materials is determined, this may be a good starting place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_and_translucency#Light_scattering_... It may also lead you to an answer about non-transparent surfaces. (From the article:) "When light falls onto a block of metal, it encounters atoms that are tightly packed in a regular lattice and a "sea of electrons" moving randomly between the atoms.[11] In metals, most of these are non-bonding electrons (or free electrons) as opposed to the bonding electrons typically found in covalently bonded or ionically bonded non-metallic (insulating) solids. In a metallic bond, any potential bonding electrons can easily be lost by the atoms in a crystalline structure. The effect of this delocalization is simply to exaggerate the effect of the "sea of electrons". As a result of these electrons, most of the incoming light in metals is reflected back, which is why we see a shiny metal surface." That article links to more articles on the subject, and those more still. A few of them look like you'll need a fairly advanced understanding of physics and math to really understand. I guess all of this is a long way to say, "I don't know either, but it sure is interesting." :) -Ryan
In most places where gold is used it's because it doesn't react with most things including air, as well as being opaque so you don't need to keep reapplying the surface. To fully answer your question we need to know the environment where it will be used. Iron rusts, sodium absorbs water from the air, so their opacity may be irrelevant to the application you have in mind. DT
________________________________ From: Ryan Simpkins <astro@ryansimpkins.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent
On Thu, June 26, 2014 21:04, BWFlowers wrote:
Well, might as well ask this also- what element is the most transparent? I'll assume it is hydrogen unless corrected, but is it fair to compare a gas to a solid? So I will amend the question to what SOLID element at room temperature (70 degree F.) is the most transparent?
For information about how transparency of solid materials is determined, this may be a good starting place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_and_translucency#Light_scattering_...
It may also lead you to an answer about non-transparent surfaces. (From the article:)
"When light falls onto a block of metal, it encounters atoms that are tightly packed in a regular lattice and a "sea of electrons" moving randomly between the atoms.[11] In metals, most of these are non-bonding electrons (or free electrons) as opposed to the bonding electrons typically found in covalently bonded or ionically bonded non-metallic (insulating) solids. In a metallic bond, any potential bonding electrons can easily be lost by the atoms in a crystalline structure. The effect of this delocalization is simply to exaggerate the effect of the "sea of electrons". As a result of these electrons, most of the incoming light in metals is reflected back, which is why we see a shiny metal surface."
That article links to more articles on the subject, and those more still. A few of them look like you'll need a fairly advanced understanding of physics and math to really understand.
I guess all of this is a long way to say, "I don't know either, but it sure is interesting." :)
-Ryan
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The is no environment or application, the question is purely academic in nature. It's just one of those things that my mind came up with, and was just curious to know on a personal level. So far I have not been able to find anything that answers my question, and surely not in any kind of everyday language that I can understand on "my level", so that's why I asked the list. Thanks, Barrett -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 1:11 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent In most places where gold is used it's because it doesn't react with most things including air, as well as being opaque so you don't need to keep reapplying the surface. To fully answer your question we need to know the environment where it will be used. Iron rusts, sodium absorbs water from the air, so their opacity may be irrelevant to the application you have in mind. DT
________________________________ From: Ryan Simpkins <astro@ryansimpkins.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent
On Thu, June 26, 2014 21:04, BWFlowers wrote:
Well, might as well ask this also- what element is the most transparent? I'll assume it is hydrogen unless corrected, but is it fair to compare a gas to a solid? So I will amend the question to what SOLID element at room temperature (70 degree F.) is the most transparent?
For information about how transparency of solid materials is determined, this may be a good starting place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_and_translucency#Light_scatte ring_in_solids
It may also lead you to an answer about non-transparent surfaces. (From the article:)
"When light falls onto a block of metal, it encounters atoms that are tightly packed in a regular lattice and a "sea of electrons" moving randomly between the atoms.[11] In metals, most of these are non-bonding electrons (or free electrons) as opposed to the bonding electrons typically found in covalently bonded or ionically bonded non-metallic (insulating) solids. In a metallic bond, any potential bonding electrons can easily be lost by the atoms in a crystalline structure. The effect of this delocalization is simply to exaggerate the effect of the "sea of electrons". As a result of these electrons, most of the incoming light in metals is reflected back, which is why we see a shiny metal surface."
That article links to more articles on the subject, and those more still. A few of them look like you'll need a fairly advanced understanding of physics and math to really understand.
I guess all of this is a long way to say, "I don't know either, but it sure is interesting." :)
-Ryan
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Oh man, college physics was 35 years ago. You're making my brain hurt. Assuming visible wavelengths? And measuring in angstroms, or atomic radii? One phosphorus nucleus, for example, is as thick as 4 hydrogen nuclei (in terms of covalent radius). Crystalline structured materials probably also have an interference effect on light at such scales. I'm going to think about this while contemplating that one atom in my fingernail could be an entire universe, man. Like, wow, dude... On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:04 PM, BWFlowers <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways-
What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level?
For those of you that have and haven't read my postulate at http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html, this is directly related to that and I will explain what this original question is about, so please bare with me on this. Dark Matter/Dark Energy makes up most of what the universe is made up of (according to many academics). The term DARK MATTER/Dark Energy refers to some unknown force or matter that we have no idea what it is. Hence the term DARK meaning UNKNOWN. I am trying to figure out what the DARK is. My personal postulate on this (in short) is- DARK is matter or energy that is traveling faster than the "Universal Speed Limit" or light speed. I asset that matter and energy DOES exist at hyper light and hyper gravitational pull speeds and it is in fact to achieve these hyper speeds without breaking any of the current "laws" of physics. Most physics equations are simple and elegant at their base- E=MC2, v/i*r, etc. The KISS principle is alive and well and I suspect that explaining hyper light/gravity speeds are equally simple, once it is figured out- via thought and practical basic experiments. PROBABLY the hyper light and hyper gravity and hyper physical matter is transformed into something entirely different from what we might envision?, or does it all become the "same thing"? I have a few ideas and I am trying to find some way to start working on them and start proofing my postulates. To this end, does anyone locally happen to have several good prisms and a set of polarizing lenses that I could borrow or buy VERY reasonably? (expanding on the experiment with the two slits in the box with light shining thru and showing the interference patterns.) At this time, I am working on the assumption that when light and gravity exceed the Universal Speed Limit, they both become "Dark Matter and Dark Energy". I believe that they both exist and that they can be usefully "put to work". I'd rather believe this, than the UNIVERSAL SPEED LIMIT, because if the SPEED limit is in fact a FACT, then we will never be able to travel to other solar systems or even other galaxies. Remember back when the irrefutable facts were- the earth is flat. The earth is the center of the universe. Etc etc. If matter and or energy can in fact travel FASTER than the "SpeedLimit", then there must be a fundamental change in the matter and energy when it does Break The Speed Limit. Does it become anti-light and anti-gravity and anti-matter or something altogether different? IS there a difference between Dark Matter and Dark Energy or are they the same thing? I also believe that we can someday harness and use this energy/matter. At that point such small things as depleting energy sources, environmental changes, and real space travel will be old hat and not a concern anymore. Does " Opaque vs Transparent" have anything to do with this? I don't know, but it's one avenue that I am checking into. I am trying to prove that light is not a particle that acts like a wave or a wave that acts like a particle= to me this is preposterous. At hyper light speeds, does light and gravity become the same thing or are they totally different forces? Gravitational pull of heavenly bodies (sun, earth etc- apples falling down instead of UP is a different gravity than the Universal Gravity, if I am correct) So is this thread appropriate to this forum? I believe so, and to that end I am asking interested parties to join in, both pro and con- just as long as you can keep an open mind about the topic and not get locked into the idea that hyper light/gravity speeds are impossible. *IF* were are in fact locked at those speed limits, then mankind's personal exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen, and I can't accept that. So- with all of that in mind- who wants to play? :) -Barrett http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 9:25 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent Oh man, college physics was 35 years ago. You're making my brain hurt. Assuming visible wavelengths? And measuring in angstroms, or atomic radii? One phosphorus nucleus, for example, is as thick as 4 hydrogen nuclei (in terms of covalent radius). Crystalline structured materials probably also have an interference effect on light at such scales. I'm going to think about this while contemplating that one atom in my fingernail could be an entire universe, man. Like, wow, dude... On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:04 PM, BWFlowers <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways-
What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
WHAT IF=? Has anyone combined ALL of the known naturally occurring elements together? if so what was the result? What's the difference if they are combine- In equal parts? In parts proportion to their atomic weights? -lowest to highest? -Highest to lowest? WHAT IF=? We made an array of "dishes" or "collectors" all made from a different element, used whatever is collected by each of these different "dishes" and then combined the outputs in different ways and ratios to see what (information/data) we get??? Going back to the previous WHAT IF=? We made a collector of all elements (of different logical ratios), what would we get or collect? -Barrett WHAT IF=? http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 10:50 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent= EXPLAINATION of why... For those of you that have and haven't read my postulate at http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html, this is directly related to that and I will explain what this original question is about, so please bare with me on this. Dark Matter/Dark Energy makes up most of what the universe is made up of (according to many academics). The term DARK MATTER/Dark Energy refers to some unknown force or matter that we have no idea what it is. Hence the term DARK meaning UNKNOWN. I am trying to figure out what the DARK is. My personal postulate on this (in short) is- DARK is matter or energy that is traveling faster than the "Universal Speed Limit" or light speed. I asset that matter and energy DOES exist at hyper light and hyper gravitational pull speeds and it is in fact to achieve these hyper speeds without breaking any of the current "laws" of physics. Most physics equations are simple and elegant at their base- E=MC2, v/i*r, etc. The KISS principle is alive and well and I suspect that explaining hyper light/gravity speeds are equally simple, once it is figured out- via thought and practical basic experiments. PROBABLY the hyper light and hyper gravity and hyper physical matter is transformed into something entirely different from what we might envision?, or does it all become the "same thing"? I have a few ideas and I am trying to find some way to start working on them and start proofing my postulates. To this end, does anyone locally happen to have several good prisms and a set of polarizing lenses that I could borrow or buy VERY reasonably? (expanding on the experiment with the two slits in the box with light shining thru and showing the interference patterns.) At this time, I am working on the assumption that when light and gravity exceed the Universal Speed Limit, they both become "Dark Matter and Dark Energy". I believe that they both exist and that they can be usefully "put to work". I'd rather believe this, than the UNIVERSAL SPEED LIMIT, because if the SPEED limit is in fact a FACT, then we will never be able to travel to other solar systems or even other galaxies. Remember back when the irrefutable facts were- the earth is flat. The earth is the center of the universe. Etc etc. If matter and or energy can in fact travel FASTER than the "SpeedLimit", then there must be a fundamental change in the matter and energy when it does Break The Speed Limit. Does it become anti-light and anti-gravity and anti-matter or something altogether different? IS there a difference between Dark Matter and Dark Energy or are they the same thing? I also believe that we can someday harness and use this energy/matter. At that point such small things as depleting energy sources, environmental changes, and real space travel will be old hat and not a concern anymore. Does " Opaque vs Transparent" have anything to do with this? I don't know, but it's one avenue that I am checking into. I am trying to prove that light is not a particle that acts like a wave or a wave that acts like a particle= to me this is preposterous. At hyper light speeds, does light and gravity become the same thing or are they totally different forces? Gravitational pull of heavenly bodies (sun, earth etc- apples falling down instead of UP is a different gravity than the Universal Gravity, if I am correct) So is this thread appropriate to this forum? I believe so, and to that end I am asking interested parties to join in, both pro and con- just as long as you can keep an open mind about the topic and not get locked into the idea that hyper light/gravity speeds are impossible. *IF* were are in fact locked at those speed limits, then mankind's personal exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen, and I can't accept that. So- with all of that in mind- who wants to play? :) -Barrett http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 9:25 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent Oh man, college physics was 35 years ago. You're making my brain hurt. Assuming visible wavelengths? And measuring in angstroms, or atomic radii? One phosphorus nucleus, for example, is as thick as 4 hydrogen nuclei (in terms of covalent radius). Crystalline structured materials probably also have an interference effect on light at such scales. I'm going to think about this while contemplating that one atom in my fingernail could be an entire universe, man. Like, wow, dude... On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:04 PM, BWFlowers <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways-
What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I can accept that mankind's exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen within the lifetime of anybody alive today. It means we have to do the right thing with the one and only planet we have at hand. Dreaming is OK, but we have to face enough reality to at least stay alive on this one rock. DT
________________________________ light/gravity speeds are impossible. *IF* were are in fact locked at those speed limits, then mankind's personal exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen, and I can't accept that.
So- with all of that in mind- who wants to play? :) -Barrett http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html
-----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 9:25 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent
Oh man, college physics was 35 years ago. You're making my brain hurt.
Assuming visible wavelengths?
And measuring in angstroms, or atomic radii? One phosphorus nucleus, for example, is as thick as 4 hydrogen nuclei (in terms of covalent radius).
Crystalline structured materials probably also have an interference effect on light at such scales.
I'm going to think about this while contemplating that one atom in my fingernail could be an entire universe, man. Like, wow, dude...
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:04 PM, BWFlowers <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways-
What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level?
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We do really need to protect our planet, agreed. On Friday, June 27, 2014 4:24 PM, daniel turner via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I can accept that mankind's exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen within the lifetime of anybody alive today. It means we have to do the right thing with the one and only planet we have at hand. Dreaming is OK, but we have to face enough reality to at least stay alive on this one rock. DT
________________________________ light/gravity speeds are impossible. *IF* were are in fact locked at those speed limits, then mankind's personal exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen, and I can't accept that.
So- with all of that in mind- who wants to play? :) -Barrett http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html
-----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 9:25 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent
Oh man, college physics was 35 years ago. You're making my brain hurt.
Assuming visible wavelengths?
And measuring in angstroms, or atomic radii? One phosphorus nucleus, for example, is as thick as 4 hydrogen nuclei (in terms of covalent radius).
Crystalline structured materials probably also have an interference effect on light at such scales.
I'm going to think about this while contemplating that one atom in my fingernail could be an entire universe, man. Like, wow, dude...
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:04 PM, BWFlowers <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways-
What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
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Holy cow! I have seen SUBJECT threads get hijacked before, but never so fast or blatantly! The two subsequent replies have nothing at all to do with the topic or question<s> that I asked. PLEASE- If you participating in the subject of this thread then do me the courtesy of not hijacking it for your own eco-political agenda. Thanks!, -Barrett -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 4:24 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent= EXPLAINATION of why... I can accept that mankind's exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen within the lifetime of anybody alive today. It means we have to do the right thing with the one and only planet we have at hand. Dreaming is OK, but we have to face enough reality to at least stay alive on this one rock. DT
________________________________ light/gravity speeds are impossible. *IF* were are in fact locked at those speed limits, then mankind's personal exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen, and I can't accept that.
So- with all of that in mind- who wants to play? :) -Barrett http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following- -Simply eliminate mankind from the earth! -Oh but wait! Some damn monkey someplace will just evolve bigger brains again and then some form of intelligent(?) life will reappear and start ruining the environment all over again, so we need a different approach; - Instead of starting at the top, we will have to start at the bottom and work upwards to eliminate the possibility of mankind ever re-evolving again. So here's what I propose= Start with all single cell and smaller life forms to include viruses and kill them all, then working upwards eliminate all higher life forms, after all we can't take the chance of sea snails developing shells that seem to last forever, or dinosaurs ever evolving since they fart methane, leave those tacky footprints in the mud that hang around for millions upon millions of years, then they have the nerve and gall to actually DIE and leave bones scattered all over the place for us to have to clean up millions of years later! How dare them!! Of course if we let any plant life at all survive then they will, given enough time dare to leave their bi-products of oxygen, which that alone may somehow allow intelligent(?)life to reform and propagate, so all plant life must go. All life of any type must be totally eradicated once and for all. Who needs all those pesky butterflies and weed flowers anyway? - But use earth bound ecologically correct star gazers still have problems! How dare the earth to have any sort of atmosphere at all? After all is was largely polluted by living organisms introducing polluting gases like methane, carbon dioxide and oxygen! NO GREENHOUSE GASES ALLOWED! Especially those organic ones! OK, so the atmosphere has got to go! It just hinders our attempts at seeing the heavens anyway. Hmmm...water vapor from the sea must also go, we can't have those damned clouds and water molecules blocking our view, so yeah, the water has to go also, especially with it around, some errant life form on some errant meteor might strike the earth and re-seed it again- so water is OUTTA HERE! Now before we can eliminate the real bad guy-us humans, in all of this, we MUST CLEAN UP OUR MESS, without making more of a polluting mess in the process, so to that end- Go to your electrical circuit breaker box and flip that larger circuit breaker to the OFF position. From there very carefully take all of the gasoline, oil and other fluids from your cars, homes and businesses, walk down to the recycle center and turn all of that filthy garbage in and do so RESPONSIBLY. Be careful not to trip and fall since there won't be any lights at night, so this can only be done responsibly during the daytime. Then get out your pick axes, hammers, shovels, wrecking bars and the like and start tearing down ALL traces of any kind that any life form has ever left and put it back the way nature intended for it to be. When this task is 110% complete and only then, take your hand tools and toss them into the ocean so that eventually the materials they are made from will decompose as best as possible. (Hmmm...darn! we already eliminated the water huh?) Ok, we will have to bury them deep, VERY deep within the earth, so that they may be reabsorbed naturally back into the earth. This process should be great accelerated since there won't be any atmosphere (if we have all been responsible human beings and done our part to clean up the mess) to block the UV and other types of NATURALLY destructive processes that happen to fall upon the earth. We just have to make sure there are no organic hitchhikers that may start the process all over again! To that end and as an insurance policy against future contamination of the natural earth, we MUST immediately erect a solar powered sophisticated star wars type laser defense system in outer space to insure that no more particles, comets, meteors and such ever impact the earth again that might restart and reseed the whole mess all over again! Of course, we must make sure that NONE of these ever get in the way of the natural rays of the sun that fall upon the earth, or block our views of the heavens in any way. There we go! Problem SOLVED! Let's get to work! -Barrett or "The Big Bad Eco Terrorist"
http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
-Simply eliminate mankind from the earth!
-Oh but wait! Some damn monkey someplace will just evolve bigger brains again and then some form of intelligent(?) life will reappear and start ruining the environment all over again, so we need a different approach;
- Instead of starting at the top, we will have to start at the bottom and work upwards to eliminate the possibility of mankind ever re-evolving again. So here's what I propose=
Start with all single cell and smaller life forms to include viruses and kill them all, then working upwards eliminate all higher life forms, after all we can't take the chance of sea snails developing shells that seem to last forever, or dinosaurs ever evolving since they fart methane, leave those tacky footprints in the mud that hang around for millions upon millions of years, then they have the nerve and gall to actually DIE and leave bones scattered all over the place for us to have to clean up millions of years later! How dare them!! Of course if we let any plant life at all survive then they will, given enough time dare to leave their bi-products of oxygen, which that alone may somehow allow intelligent(?)life to reform and propagate, so all plant life must go. All life of any type must be totally eradicated once and for all. Who needs all those pesky butterflies and weed flowers anyway?
- But use earth bound ecologically correct star gazers still have problems! How dare the earth to have any sort of atmosphere at all? After all is was largely polluted by living organisms introducing polluting gases like methane, carbon dioxide and oxygen! NO GREENHOUSE GASES ALLOWED! Especially those organic ones! OK, so the atmosphere has got to go! It just hinders our attempts at seeing the heavens anyway. Hmmm...water vapor from the sea must also go, we can't have those damned clouds and water molecules blocking our view, so yeah, the water has to go also, especially with it around, some errant life form on some errant meteor might strike the earth and re-seed it again- so water is OUTTA HERE! Now before we can eliminate the real bad guy-us humans, in all of this, we MUST CLEAN UP OUR MESS, without making more of a polluting mess in the process, so to that end-
Go to your electrical circuit breaker box and flip that larger circuit breaker to the OFF position. From there very carefully take all of the gasoline, oil and other fluids from your cars, homes and businesses, walk down to the recycle center and turn all of that filthy garbage in and do so RESPONSIBLY. Be careful not to trip and fall since there won't be any lights at night, so this can only be done responsibly during the daytime. Then get out your pick axes, hammers, shovels, wrecking bars and the like and start tearing down ALL traces of any kind that any life form has ever left and put it back the way nature intended for it to be. When this task is 110% complete and only then, take your hand tools and toss them into the ocean so that eventually the materials they are made from will decompose as best as possible. (Hmmm...darn! we already eliminated the water huh?)
Ok, we will have to bury them deep, VERY deep within the earth, so that they may be reabsorbed naturally back into the earth. This process should be great accelerated since there won't be any atmosphere (if we have all been responsible human beings and done our part to clean up the mess) to block the UV and other types of NATURALLY destructive processes that happen to fall upon the earth. We just have to make sure there are no organic hitchhikers that may start the process all over again!
To that end and as an insurance policy against future contamination of the natural earth, we MUST immediately erect a solar powered sophisticated star wars type laser defense system in outer space to insure that no more particles, comets, meteors and such ever impact the earth again that might restart and reseed the whole mess all over again!
Of course, we must make sure that NONE of these ever get in the way of the natural rays of the sun that fall upon the earth, or block our views of the heavens in any way.
There we go! Problem SOLVED! Let's get to work!
-Barrett or "The Big Bad Eco Terrorist"
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I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr... Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I am afraid I must disagree. If you look at the ridge of dirt around the hole, it has very sharp edges. This indicates some sort of a violent action (detonation, explosion). In many ways, this looks like what a high explosive crater except for the very deep hole in the middle. I am leaning toward the original thought of some kind of chemical reaction. Bill On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr... Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I see and agree with your point about the edges and what appears to be ejecta. I think the ideas offered thus far about some kind of "burp" from a subterranean cavity sound like the most reasonable explanation. But that's the great thing about science - it's a mystery to be solved through a gathering and analysis of evidence. Can't wait for more news & pics! Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of william baker via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:52 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I am afraid I must disagree. If you look at the ridge of dirt around the hole, it has very sharp edges. This indicates some sort of a violent action (detonation, explosion). In many ways, this looks like what a high explosive crater except for the very deep hole in the middle. I am leaning toward the original thought of some kind of chemical reaction. Bill On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr... Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I vote for pingo. The walls are too uniformly vertical. They don't look like the result of a cataclysmic meteor strike; they don't slope upward and outward in a bowl shape but are more like a glass shape. On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:06 AM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: I see and agree with your point about the edges and what appears to be ejecta. I think the ideas offered thus far about some kind of "burp" from a subterranean cavity sound like the most reasonable explanation. But that's the great thing about science - it's a mystery to be solved through a gathering and analysis of evidence. Can't wait for more news & pics! Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of william baker via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:52 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I am afraid I must disagree. If you look at the ridge of dirt around the hole, it has very sharp edges. This indicates some sort of a violent action (detonation, explosion). In many ways, this looks like what a high explosive crater except for the very deep hole in the middle. I am leaning toward the original thought of some kind of chemical reaction. Bill On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr... Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
If you are familiar with a "shatter cone", it looks like what would be left if you pulled a VERY large shatter cone out of the ground. Of course, it isn't, but if it was it would be the largest shatter cone ever found by a long shot! Yeah, I can dream...lol :-) Barrett -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:11 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I vote for pingo. The walls are too uniformly vertical. They don't look like the result of a cataclysmic meteor strike; they don't slope upward and outward in a bowl shape but are more like a glass shape. On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:06 AM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: I see and agree with your point about the edges and what appears to be ejecta. I think the ideas offered thus far about some kind of "burp" from a subterranean cavity sound like the most reasonable explanation. But that's the great thing about science - it's a mystery to be solved through a gathering and analysis of evidence. Can't wait for more news & pics! Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of william baker via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:52 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I am afraid I must disagree. If you look at the ridge of dirt around the hole, it has very sharp edges. This indicates some sort of a violent action (detonation, explosion). In many ways, this looks like what a high explosive crater except for the very deep hole in the middle. I am leaning toward the original thought of some kind of chemical reaction. Bill On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr ater-in-northern-siberia-20140716-ztqvi.html Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Does anyone know the current location of Godzilla? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> To: "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>, "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:18:11 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! If you are familiar with a "shatter cone", it looks like what would be left if you pulled a VERY large shatter cone out of the ground. Of course, it isn't, but if it was it would be the largest shatter cone ever found by a long shot! Yeah, I can dream...lol :-) Barrett -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:11 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I vote for pingo. The walls are too uniformly vertical. They don't look like the result of a cataclysmic meteor strike; they don't slope upward and outward in a bowl shape but are more like a glass shape. On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:06 AM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: I see and agree with your point about the edges and what appears to be ejecta. I think the ideas offered thus far about some kind of "burp" from a subterranean cavity sound like the most reasonable explanation. But that's the great thing about science - it's a mystery to be solved through a gathering and analysis of evidence. Can't wait for more news & pics! Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of william baker via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:52 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I am afraid I must disagree. If you look at the ridge of dirt around the hole, it has very sharp edges. This indicates some sort of a violent action (detonation, explosion). In many ways, this looks like what a high explosive crater except for the very deep hole in the middle. I am leaning toward the original thought of some kind of chemical reaction. Bill On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr ater-in-northern-siberia-20140716-ztqvi.html Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
It's playing at the Sugarhouse Movies 10. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CenturyLink Customer Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:10 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Does anyone know the current location of Godzilla? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> To: "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>, "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:18:11 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! If you are familiar with a "shatter cone", it looks like what would be left if you pulled a VERY large shatter cone out of the ground. Of course, it isn't, but if it was it would be the largest shatter cone ever found by a long shot! Yeah, I can dream...lol :-) Barrett -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:11 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I vote for pingo. The walls are too uniformly vertical. They don't look like the result of a cataclysmic meteor strike; they don't slope upward and outward in a bowl shape but are more like a glass shape. On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:06 AM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: I see and agree with your point about the edges and what appears to be ejecta. I think the ideas offered thus far about some kind of "burp" from a subterranean cavity sound like the most reasonable explanation. But that's the great thing about science - it's a mystery to be solved through a gathering and analysis of evidence. Can't wait for more news & pics! Seth -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of william baker via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:52 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I am afraid I must disagree. If you look at the ridge of dirt around the hole, it has very sharp edges. This indicates some sort of a violent action (detonation, explosion). In many ways, this looks like what a high explosive crater except for the very deep hole in the middle. I am leaning toward the original thought of some kind of chemical reaction. Bill On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM, Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org> wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-cr ater-in-northern-siberia-20140716-ztqvi.html Not a meteor impact, it's pretty clearly some kind of upheaval/collapse structure - looks more like the Siberian permafrost equivalent of a Florida sinkhole. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! I bring the following over from another list, if for no other reason than to keep the discussion going :-) -Barrett ============================ Their "most plausible theory" involves global warming? Global warming isn't even a plausible theory any more, ask a climatologist. This article acknowledges that it is not a meteorite crater, which is apparent from the pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-app ears-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html "A spokesman for the ministry's Yamal branch has ruled out a meteorite, but says it is too early to say what caused the hole. 'We can definitely say that it is not a meteorite,' he says." Michael in so. Cal. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sheets Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:00 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tree Huggers UNITE! Importance: High http://www.vhemt.org/ On 6/27/14, 11:30 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, mankind with his pollution of the ground, air and skies is irreparably harming the earth and making it difficult for us earth bound star gazers to see the heavens, so with this in mind I propose the following-
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I'd have to say that your previous posting, among many other things, talked about man kinds ability to visit other planets. Dan made a rational response and Joe agreed. In the future, let's aim for civility in postings. Jo On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:40 PM, "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> wrote:
Holy cow! I have seen SUBJECT threads get hijacked before, but never so fast or blatantly! The two subsequent replies have nothing at all to do with the topic or question<s> that I asked. PLEASE- If you participating in the subject of this thread then do me the courtesy of not hijacking it for your own eco-political agenda. Thanks!, -Barrett
-----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner via Utah-Astronomy Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 4:24 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent= EXPLAINATION of why...
I can accept that mankind's exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen within the lifetime of anybody alive today.
It means we have to do the right thing with the one and only planet we have at hand.
Dreaming is OK, but we have to face enough reality to at least stay alive on this one rock.
DT
________________________________ light/gravity speeds are impossible. *IF* were are in fact locked at those speed limits, then mankind's personal exploration of the universe just plain ain't gonna happen, and I can't accept that.
So- with all of that in mind- who wants to play? :) -Barrett http://www.barrettscustomleather.com/physics.html
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Opacity In Gold Coated Welding Lenses it seems that reflectivity is what is important; Colored lenses absorb incoming light but do not absorb all frequencies equally, and can distort colors. Gold lenses reflect rather than absorb light. They restrict light from passing through the lens and give you a truer color palette. Both types will prevent damaging levels of UV light from reaching your eyes, so usage generally amounts to a matter a personal preference. (1) Opacity or mass absorption coefficient, if I understand the math, appears to be a function of frequency of the light and the molecular density of the material as to how far the light travels through the material. (2) If that is the case there are 6 other elements that a have a higher STP (Standard Temperature and Pressure) density and Liquid Density than gold and Tungsten having a higher Liquid density but a slightly lower STP Density. Atomic Number Symbol Name STP Density kg/m³ Liquid Density kg/m³ 75 Re Rhenium 21020 18900 76 Os Osmium 22610 20000 77 Ir Iridium 22650 19000 78 Pt Platinum 21090 19770 93 Np Neptunium 20450 94 Pu Plutonium 19816 79 Au Gold 19300 17310 74 W Tungsten 19250 17600 STP - Standard Temperature and Pressure (3) I suspect that gold is used most often, for ease of use, chemical properties, reactivity, non-radioactivity, available and cost of the material. As for transparency, Hydrogen at 0.0899 kg/m³ is the least dense element with Helium (0.1785) and Neon (0.9) next in density. (3) There is a lot of material and studies out there about using gold in various applications that sound exciting. Including Gold nanoparticles: interesting optical properties and recent applications in cancer diagnostics and therapy. (4) Thank you for asking this question it made me do research and use my brain. I invite anyone to please feel free to correct errors in my math and research. Hope this helps answer some of your questions, Jamie Bradley References 1 - GOLD-COATED THE GOLD STANDARD OF WELDING LENSES - Written on October 7, 2013 by Ryan Phillips (http://blog.phillips-safety.com/gold-coated-the-gold-standard-of-welding-le nses) 2 - Opacity (optics) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opacity_(optics)) 3 - Dynamic Periodic Table. Dayah, Michael. (http://www.ptable.com) 4 - Gold nanoparticles: interesting optical properties and recent applications in cancer diagnostics and therapy. - Xiaohua Huang, Prashant K Jain, Ivan H El-Sayed, Mostafa A El-Sayed - Georgia Institute of Technology, Laser Dynamics Laboratory, School of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Atlanta, GA 30332, USA. (http://www.researchgate.net/publication/5870560_Gold_nanoparticles_interest ing_optical_properties_and_recent_applications_in_cancer_diagnostics_and_the rapy) -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BWFlowers Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:05 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Opaque vs Transparent Just as a pure curiosity question, that I have not been able to google successfully, and for clarity I will word the same question a couple of different ways- What ELEMENT is the most opaque? Meaning- How thin can the most opaque element be before it will allow light to penetrate it at any level? When I was in grade school, early 1960's our science teacher said that it was GOLD and I have wondered about it all these years. Personally I'd be willing to bet that gold is NOT CORRECT, or is it? The reason I think gold is not correct is that gold is used in a lot of higher end welding lenses to darken the lens against the electrical arc and is offered in various "tints" to suit the individual. On the other hand, he may in fact have been correct and that is exactly why gold is used. Thin can defined in terms of layers of molecules (100 molecules thick, etc) or an actual thickness like 1/10th of a hair thick or .00003" Expressing it in some (off-the-wall) scientific term wouldn't do a lot of good if I have no frame of reference (yeah, I'm not the smartest brick in the wall). Also I assume that the power of the light source would enter into it, so to keep the playing field level on that, let's say direct sunlight as the source. Hmmm... brings up another question- How many candlepower is the sun? To narrow the parameters a bit more, the brightness of the sunlight at sea level or here in SLC at approx 4,000 ft ASL. Well, might as well ask this also- what element is the most transparent? I'll assume it is hydrogen unless corrected, but is it fair to compare a gas to a solid? So I will amend the question to what SOLID element at room temperature (70 degree F.) is the most transparent? Thanks! -Barrett <http://www.FallenStarHunters.com> www.FallenStarHunters.com <http://www.BarrettsCustomLeather.com> www.BarrettsCustomLeather.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list <http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to <mailto:Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: <http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
participants (17)
-
Brent Watson -
Brian Sheets -
BWFlowers -
CenturyLink Customer -
Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
Dave Gary -
Don J. Colton -
Ed -
Jamie Bradley -
Joe Bauman -
Josephine Grahn -
Richard Tenney -
Ryan Simpkins -
Seth Jarvis -
Wiggins Patrick -
william baker