Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me. And a picture is worth ... well you know. So here is my take on the ease of use issue. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693 Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up. I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole. Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690 All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor. Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look. DT
On 9/20/11, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up.
Aw, he's having fun. Be nice. There is an alt-az alternative using Dob technology for mounting a large refractor, that weighs about 20% what a GEM weighs, if hauling and setting up large masses aren't for you. Mark may want to go this route, since it's a natural for a wood worker.
"and then, Steve rolled his eyes, shrugged his shoulders and remembered his favorite saying. Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." No name calling, just a saying that applies to so many things in my very humble opinion. Vive la difference!
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:09:54 -0700 From: outwest112@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] combined reply
Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me.
And a picture is worth ... well you know.
So here is my take on the ease of use issue.
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693
Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up.
I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole.
Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes.
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690
All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor.
Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look.
DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 9/20/11, Steve Fisher <iotacass1@hotmail.com> wrote:
"and then, Steve rolled his eyes, shrugged his shoulders and remembered his favorite saying. Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
Man, ain't it the truth. The time and money I wasted on that correspondence course. Nobody wanted to hire me as a swine choral director.
Well, Dan if you have not figured this out yet, very few telescopes people bring out are accessible to me.
I am glad you got a good look at jupiter. Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me.
And a picture is worth ... well you know. So here is my take on the ease of use issue. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693 Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up. I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole. Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690 All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor. Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Looked at Neptune and Uranus though. BTW how many scopes did you look at Jupiter through?
and quoting Larry's t-shirt "They got pluto, Uranus is next" Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me.
And a picture is worth ... well you know. So here is my take on the ease of use issue. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693 Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up. I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole. Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690 All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor. Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
I looked through Steve's refractor, Ray's dob and Roger's 10" dob. BTW I had forgotten about the access issue but if you had been able to motor accross the lawn to it Ray's eyepiece was at a comfortable seated positon when the moon came over the hills. Dob's are convenient for items at low altitude, moreso than GEMs on a tall pier. DT From: "erikhansen@thebluezone.net" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] combined reply
Looked at Neptune and Uranus though. BTW how many scopes did you look at Jupiter through?
and quoting Larry's t-shirt "They got pluto, Uranus is next" Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me.
And a picture is worth ... well you know. So here is my take on the ease of use issue. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693 Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up. I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole. Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690 All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor. Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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To begin with when I am at SPOC I am usually occupied operating the Grim. Be careful evaluating what you think is accessible, I find few people have a clue. Evaluating it based on Deloy would also be a mistake, his seated position is very different than mine. Manual wheelchairs are much less hampered by curbs (and set much lower) than powerchairs, I would say if you think Winchester Park is disabled friendly you are mistaken.
With all the power cords etc it is best that I stay off the field. Dan you were not a member of SLAS when I was able to goto private events and bring my scope, and really I am not in astronomy to satisfy your expectations. Jupiter on the horizon, give me a break. I looked through Steve's refractor, Ray's dob and Roger's 10" dob.
BTW I had forgotten about the access issue but if you had been able to motor accross the lawn to it Ray's eyepiece was at a comfortable seated positon when the moon came over the hills. Dob's are convenient for items at low altitude, moreso than GEMs on a tall pier. DT
From: "erikhansen@thebluezone.net" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] combined reply
Looked at Neptune and Uranus though. BTW how many scopes did you look at Jupiter through?
and quoting Larry's t-shirt "They got pluto, Uranus is next"
Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me.
And a picture is worth ... well you know. So here is my take on the ease of use issue. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693 Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up. I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole. Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690 All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor. Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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On 9/20/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
To begin with when I am at SPOC I am usually occupied operating the Grim. Be careful evaluating what you think is accessible, I find few people have a clue. Evaluating it based on Deloy would also be a mistake, his seated position is very different than mine. Manual wheelchairs are much less hampered by curbs (and set much lower) than powerchairs, I would say if you think Winchester Park is disabled friendly you are mistaken.
Erik, I'd really like your help when I make the 6" f/10 refractor on a Gerrish mount. It could be the perfect ADA scope for chair-bound users, without resorting to a video feed to a screen. FWIW, when I was at Winchester, I set up on the pavement adjacent to the grass. The luck of the draw, as I was the last one to arrive with optical gear. If I know in advance that you are coming, I will continue to set up on the pavement. The view is still over grass so the imagery didn't suffer at all.
On 9/21/11, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Erik, I'd really like your help when I make the 6" f/10 refractor on a Gerrish mount. It could be the perfect ADA scope for chair-bound users, without resorting to a video feed to a screen.
Actually the 6" f/5 might be better for ADA, we'll see what the final eyepiece height turns out to be. Another advantage of a Gerrish mount is that it can be polar-aligned with a laser, good enough for visual use and maybe imaging.
Here's a diagram of the Gerrish polar mount, for those not familiar with it's kinematics: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1924PA.....32..414L It can easily be made as a compact, portable mount. I've seen them mounted as a 2-wheeled "wheelbarrow" design.
Chuck, It is pretty much a height issue, my 6 inch f5 works well but I designed it for standing because that was the comfortable position that required little bending or stooping for many years. I bought a chair that matches my needs and that puts me in a standing position, the trade off was less off trail access. The f5 does make it so the eyepiece height is never very near the ground and little variability and it's on a pier now so tripod legs are not an issue. Refractors with a diagonal allow different viewing positions as well, in relation to the tripod. The Grim works well for me, but a have found one telescope position that does not work when the eyepiece can only be in one position, straight up. I do encourage people with my type of chair to come out to SPOC. The ADA scope was pretty well designed, but generally refractors work better for me than reflectors. Kudos to Kim Hyatt and Bruce for always setting it up. Comfort of eyepiece position has always been paramount to me and generally that means designing and building your own.
I went to Winchester after a dog walk, I did not realize there was no sidewalk or ramp anywhere there. I look through a scope with a G-11 mount, which is the same mount I own. The biggest problem is they over water (its always city, state, and county governments that don't practice water conservation) so the ground a little too soft and if someone sets up on the last flat space next to the parkway it leaves a side hill I am nervous about, anyway its hardly ADA compatible, really. I have been on most of the parkway form 13800 south to 3900 south, there are other good places for a Sun Party with better access. Seems they are more for the people setting up their scopes than the public. Anywhere on the parkway you will get the same passerby's. From the parking lot you cannot see that scopes are set up either, the parked cars hide them. I would also think your f 10 may be better for solar applications. F10 makes the height much more variable. Take the Andy for example it ranges from a tall ladder to a step stool. Other than the obvious, the problem with ladders becomes foot fatigue and pain, unless you have some sort of platform. The problem with platforms is they rarely are adjustable to multiple heights unless they are very big. My feet would ache after a night on the 20 inch. I am not going to get into a modern vs old tech refractors, but there are very good computer designed APO's out there that are f7 that don't have the problems long tube refractors have. I have never had a problem resolving doubles with my 6 inch f5 Jaegers. On 9/20/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
To begin with when I am at SPOC I am usually occupied operating the Grim. Be careful evaluating what you think is accessible, I find few people have a clue. Evaluating it based on Deloy would also be a mistake, his seated position is very different than mine. Manual wheelchairs are much less hampered by curbs (and set much lower) than powerchairs, I would say if you think Winchester Park is disabled friendly you are mistaken.
Erik, I'd really like your help when I make the 6" f/10 refractor on a Gerrish mount. It could be the perfect ADA scope for chair-bound users, without resorting to a video feed to a screen.
FWIW, when I was at Winchester, I set up on the pavement adjacent to the grass. The luck of the draw, as I was the last one to arrive with optical gear. If I know in advance that you are coming, I will continue to set up on the pavement. The view is still over grass so the imagery didn't suffer at all.
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On 9/21/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck, It is pretty much a height issue,
Remember that with the Gerrish mount, the eyepiece is fixed, with the tube pointing down, coaxial with the polar axis. The eyepiece is always in exactly the same position. An elliptical flat reflects the sky up the telescope tube. The f/10 will put the eyepiece too high for seated viewing, though your chair could raise you high enough, I'm thinking. The f/5 should be about right for a seated position. I didn't set up on the grass at Winchester for the very reason you cited- the sloped hill. On the pavement next to my car, you'd have no problem accessing the PST, or the binos with solar filters.
It should be an interesting project, I would be glad to help you test it out. I was generally referring to traditional mountings of refractors. Your concept seems more catered for longer focal length, IE folding optical path reduces length. I have seen some folded refractors at RTMC in the past, I find them impressive.
On 9/21/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck, It is pretty much a height issue,
Remember that with the Gerrish mount, the eyepiece is fixed, with the tube pointing down, coaxial with the polar axis. The eyepiece is always in exactly the same position. An elliptical flat reflects the sky up the telescope tube.
The f/10 will put the eyepiece too high for seated viewing, though your chair could raise you high enough, I'm thinking. The f/5 should be about right for a seated position.
I didn't set up on the grass at Winchester for the very reason you cited- the sloped hill. On the pavement next to my car, you'd have no problem accessing the PST, or the binos with solar filters.
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On 9/21/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
It should be an interesting project, I would be glad to help you test it out. I was generally referring to traditional mountings of refractors. Your concept seems more catered for longer focal length, IE folding optical path reduces length. I have seen some folded refractors at RTMC in the past, I find them impressive.
The optical path in a Gerrish is folded in front of the objectve, not behind. The optical tube itself is straight-through, totally conventional, and can be removed and installed on any other mount. The tube is inclined at the latitude of the observer, and you need room below the objective for the flat mirror, so a 6" f/10 could actually put the eyepiece around 5 feet off the ground. That's why I said the f/5 might be better, since we would lose 30 inches in tube length. I have an elliptical, 9" minor-axis flat that I plan to use. So in practice it would accommodate up to about 8.5" aperture.
But by sticking with 6" aperture, we can go a bit a bit further south without vignetting.
Daniel, Daniel, it wasn't the "best" view, it was the "only" view as Jupiter was behind the trees for Steve and Eric. Semantics count and are duly noted! ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:09:54 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] combined reply Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me. And a picture is worth ... well you know. So here is my take on the ease of use issue. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693 Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up. I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole. Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690 All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor. Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
"he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead".
is this an advantage or disadvantage of big refractors? That is one tall pier. Needs a ladder to put it in cradle, looks like C-Spine injury waiting to happen. I am often amazed at uncomfortable user positions people tolerate with their scopes. The best view of jupiter I have ever had was with the 16" at SPOC on a foggy night. It was the only thing you could see but the view was so great you just did not care.
Jupiter was behind the trees for Steve and Eric. Semantics count and are duly noted!
----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:09:54 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] combined reply
Too many msgs for me to reply to all that are of interest to me.  And a picture is worth ... well you know.  So here is my take on the ease of use issue.  http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4693  Note it takes two guys and two ladders to set this turkey up.  I wish I had a picture of Steve trying to find Alpa Hercules last Saturday. Besides the problem with the pointing computer he had to be down on his knees because the object was almost straight overhead. You know, up in Dobson's Hole.   Also someone mentioned octogonal wooden tubes.  http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4690  All I'll say about it at this time is it ain't no refractor.   Also Joan, Eric and Steve would have seen that the best view of Jupiter on Saturday was through Ray's 14 dob. If you had bothered to look.  DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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participants (5)
-
Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
jcarman6＠q.com -
Steve Fisher