Oh I like 'em all, deeply. I'm just a cantankerous 67-year-old coot. Think nothing of my occasional grumpiness. -- Joe ------------------------------ On Wed, May 29, 2013 3:26 PM MDT Richard Tenney wrote:

Joe, knowing you, Brent and Chuck, I don't believe anyone had any intention of snobbery while sharing personal perspective regarding our early years in the hobby.  Please take everything said here with a grain of salt,  knowing that we're all friends at the end of the day.  I for one have a great deal of respect for you, FWIW. /R

________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Frustration at the eyepiece: help!

I do not have a learning disability. I have a difficulty involving directional orientation -- it's a mild type of dyslexia that causes people to get turned around easily but does NOT interfere with ability to learn! As far as I'm concerned it's not the same. My saying that is not an "admission" that I have a learning disability today. It's a little obstacle. When I was a child I had trouble telling a b from a d, but as a writer, that's no longer a problem. As a child I couldn't tie my shoelaces the proper way and I still just tie them using granny loops. I think I can remember not knowing left from right, but I have known that one for a very long time now. It's a particular kind of wiring problem. I also don't feel anyone should be snobby about people with no dyslexia or other problem who do not choose to learn the constellations. It's really not what astronomy is about for many. If knowing which constellation abuts another rings your bell, fine. To me it seems like a trivial subject to invest time and energy on when you could spend the same time and energy LEARNING (as I have) about many other astronomical factors.  But as they say, to each his own. -- Joe

________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Frustration at the eyepiece: help!

Joe, the difference is that you, by your admission, have a learning disability.  It's not a choice.  Therefore you and those who cannot learn, at least by the methods Brent and I are familiar with, are not the people we were referring to.  Well, speaking for myself, at least.

If you can't (and I know you've tried), then you are not among those who won't.

See the difference?  It wasn't directed at you.

My humblest apology if you took it personally.

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>wrote:

...

Also, what about this comment by you, Chuck? It sounds pretty condescending to me: "I know some people who don't even feel it necessary to learn the sky as one would become familiar with a terrestrial map, for example." What does that sound like, "don't even feel it necessary" -- a compliment? -- Joe

________________________________   From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:18 AM   Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Frustration at the eyepiece: help!

You can't, Chuck? Then you didn't read the email by Brent: "Today, when it is no longer necessary to learn the sky, I feel - no I know there is a great deal lost by those who don't take the time and make the sacrifice to adopt the stars as your personal friends.  I am certain the heavens know my name, just as I know theirs." Well, I'm not certain the heavens know my name and I'd be creeped out if they did! -- Joe

________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Frustration at the eyepiece: help!

I can't recall anyone ever ever acting snobbish about learning the sky, Joe. It's what worked for some of us, and we relate our stories, but don't look down on anyone who doesn't.  I feel sorrry for them, but don't think they are any less of a person.  To each, his own.  Like my finder method, I know that some people can't do it, for whatever reason, and look at me like I'm stupid when explaining it, but hey, it works for me. I do feel that for those with conditions such as dyslexia, there may yet be a way to become more familiar with the sky than some may think- perhaps a workable methodology just hasn't been thought-out yet.  I am loathe to simply give-up and walk away from even trying.

You're a bit sensitive to the issue, and perhaps rightly so- I can't walk in your shoes- but nobody looks down on you for that or any other reason. Likewise don't look down on those of us who found the sky at an early age and made it our own.  Learning things in youth is always easier than late in life.

Frankly, people like Rich, Brent, and myself seem to be in the minority these days, anyway.  When I was in jr. high school, there were at least 5 or 6 of us who took our telescopes out in the backyard regularly- one friend had a 10" Essential Optics reflector!  I doubt you'd find that many in any random jr. high these days.

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com

...

wrote:

...

  Frankly, I resent the snobbish attitudes of people who do know the night sky and act as if we who don't know it that well are lazy jerks.

---

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