Hi All, I have decided to drop off the UA list, and would like to say good-bye. I am nearly 66 years old, have diabetes, high blood pressure and cholesterol problems and must take a pill every day to help cope with depression. The group is too contentious for me. That has taken all the fun out of sharing a love for astronomy. Today I will be writing my last blog, because I promised to cover the presentation at SLAS by ATK's Mike Jacobs and Paul Karner. It will also have a good-bye to blogging. I haven't quite decided whether to drop out of SLAS but I am leaning in that direction. Nobody knows how much time is left and I choose not to spend mine in stressful pursuits. I will be writing more about the Revolutionary War, about the Spanish-American War, and at least one novel. I send you my good wishes -- Joe
I hate to see you go. Drop me a line whenever you publish. I'll go to Amazon and pick up a copy. If you happen to get lost and find yourself in St. George (perish the thought) give me a call. I'd enjoy meeting you. Dave Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2012, at 12:09 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All, I have decided to drop off the UA list, and would like to say good-bye. I am nearly 66 years old, have diabetes, high blood pressure and cholesterol problems and must take a pill every day to help cope with depression. The group is too contentious for me. That has taken all the fun out of sharing a love for astronomy. Today I will be writing my last blog, because I promised to cover the presentation at SLAS by ATK's Mike Jacobs and Paul Karner. It will also have a good-bye to blogging. I haven't quite decided whether to drop out of SLAS but I am leaning in that direction. Nobody knows how much time is left and I choose not to spend mine in stressful pursuits. I will be writing more about the Revolutionary War, about the Spanish-American War, and at least one novel. I send you my good wishes -- Joe _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 1/22/12, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I hate to see you go.
Likewise, Joe, the place isn't the same without you. And you're not dead yet, you have many years ahead of you if you keep doing what your doctors tell you. This place is a church compared to some of the forums I've been on. We have to be able to tolerate differences of opinion or we risk turning into a mini U.S. Congress. I've had my mind changed on several issues here because of informative posts that contradicted my initial mindset. I like to think that, as an "old dog", I can still learn a few new tricks. A few.
I'd also like to express my respect for you Joe. I've always enjoyed your articles and emails here on UA. I'll wish you all the best, and hope we bump into each other at Lakeside sometimes. On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/22/12, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I hate to see you go.
Likewise, Joe, the place isn't the same without you. And you're not dead yet, you have many years ahead of you if you keep doing what your doctors tell you.
This place is a church compared to some of the forums I've been on. We have to be able to tolerate differences of opinion or we risk turning into a mini U.S. Congress. I've had my mind changed on several issues here because of informative posts that contradicted my initial mindset. I like to think that, as an "old dog", I can still learn a few new tricks. A few.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Chrismo I fix things, all kinds of things... (801) 897-9075
I would suggest the recent unsubscribers need to look within, nothing posted warranted the reaction. Grow Up!
I'd also like to express my respect for you Joe. I've always enjoyed your
articles and emails here on UA. I'll wish you all the best, and hope we bump into each other at Lakeside sometimes.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/22/12, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I hate to see you go.
Likewise, Joe, the place isn't the same without you. And you're not dead yet, you have many years ahead of you if you keep doing what your doctors tell you.
This place is a church compared to some of the forums I've been on. We have to be able to tolerate differences of opinion or we risk turning into a mini U.S. Congress. I've had my mind changed on several issues here because of informative posts that contradicted my initial mindset. I like to think that, as an "old dog", I can still learn a few new tricks. A few.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Chrismo I fix things, all kinds of things...
(801) 897-9075 _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Yikes. I know I don't contribute much here, but I just wanted to add my thanks to Joe for his blog posts, which I have enjoyed. Joe, I commend you for making your own decisions about your own life. That sounds like being a grown-up to me. You need to do what's right for you. Good luck and I wish you the best. Mike On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:46 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I would suggest the recent unsubscribers need to look within, nothing posted warranted the reaction. Grow Up!
I'd also like to express my respect for you Joe. I've always enjoyed your
articles and emails here on UA. I'll wish you all the best, and hope we bump into each other at Lakeside sometimes.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/22/12, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
I hate to see you go.
Likewise, Joe, the place isn't the same without you. And you're not dead yet, you have many years ahead of you if you keep doing what your doctors tell you.
This place is a church compared to some of the forums I've been on. We have to be able to tolerate differences of opinion or we risk turning into a mini U.S. Congress. I've had my mind changed on several issues here because of informative posts that contradicted my initial mindset. I like to think that, as an "old dog", I can still learn a few new tricks. A few.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Chrismo I fix things, all kinds of things...
(801) 897-9075 _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Michael W. Thelen mthelen@gmail.com
On 1/22/12, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I would suggest the recent unsubscribers need to look within, nothing posted warranted the reaction.
There are a couple of posts at Jay's forum that, while not outright stating it, suggest that recent discussions here have been "uncivil". Honestly, I can't find or remember any posts that are uncivil. It seems that people get hurt when others simply disagree with them. If we can't disagree, then things will get downright boring. Like CN, it can become just a bunch of "me too" hand-holders and people wanting to bask in the warm glow of groupthink. Freedom is more important than decorum, IMO. And even saying that, a disagreement is not a breach of procedure or a rules infraction. Variety is the spice of life. If a forum or list turns into plain, uninteresting vanilla sameness and blank-faced empty smiles, THAT will drive me off. I do hope Joe, Kurt, and others return.
I hope they return as well, but lets be real, Jay and Joe both started the discussion and posted the most comments on the subject. Joe indicated in his blog he basically burned out on Astronomy as a whole. It seems both had alterative motives. I would add many that left in the last few months did participate in a lot of name calling and personal attacks.
If you post something you have no right to expect or demand no response to that post. and the idea has never had enough support to be viable, in a vote 5% of the club expressed an interest in a charter. I have had discussions with many MD's who at one time had an interest is Astronomy, their thoughts were you can look at the same objects only so many times then you need to get on with your lives. It is primarily and individual pursuit Erik On 1/22/12, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I would suggest the recent unsubscribers need to look within, nothing posted warranted the reaction.
There are a couple of posts at Jay's forum that, while not outright stating it, suggest that recent discussions here have been "uncivil".
Honestly, I can't find or remember any posts that are uncivil. It seems that people get hurt when others simply disagree with them.
If we can't disagree, then things will get downright boring. Like CN, it can become just a bunch of "me too" hand-holders and people wanting to bask in the warm glow of groupthink.
Freedom is more important than decorum, IMO. And even saying that, a disagreement is not a breach of procedure or a rules infraction. Variety is the spice of life. If a forum or list turns into plain, uninteresting vanilla sameness and blank-faced empty smiles, THAT will drive me off.
I do hope Joe, Kurt, and others return.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
I’m glad the list is open to diverse opinions, because I have a few. How do I stay in the list? If there are more than 10 entries in my in basket I delete all the entries from the three most frequent posters. That will remove almost all the buddy chatter, attaboys, and “me too”s. I think we need to understand what is making people leave the list. In Jay’s case he made a generous offer to drive people to the center of the eclipse this summer. All he really wanted was to hear from people who wanted to go with him. Anything other than that was off topic. In the past when Jay wanted to go out to a dark site on the night of a SLAS event at SPOC, he would get replies suggesting he not go out on nights that “belong” to SLAS. This time, not only was his message thread hijacked, his outing was ignored and replaced with a SLAS event, including the required dogfight over funding. We are losing the young active and knowledgeable members. These people have an interest in Astronomy but not the time to suffer the noise. DT ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] last note On 1/22/12, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I would suggest the recent unsubscribers need to look within, nothing posted warranted the reaction.
There are a couple of posts at Jay's forum that, while not outright stating it, suggest that recent discussions here have been "uncivil". Honestly, I can't find or remember any posts that are uncivil. It seems that people get hurt when others simply disagree with them. If we can't disagree, then things will get downright boring. Like CN, it can become just a bunch of "me too" hand-holders and people wanting to bask in the warm glow of groupthink. Freedom is more important than decorum, IMO. And even saying that, a disagreement is not a breach of procedure or a rules infraction. Variety is the spice of life. If a forum or list turns into plain, uninteresting vanilla sameness and blank-faced empty smiles, THAT will drive me off. I do hope Joe, Kurt, and others return. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 1/23/12, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
We are losing the young active and knowledgeable members. These people have an interest in Astronomy but not the time to suffer the noise.
They sure seem to have a helluva lot more time than I do. Noise is part of life, for good or ill. But your point is well-taken. And I apologize for taking the bait on that last fiasco. I'm going to ignore OT, thread-jacked posts from now on, or at least make a point to change the subject if I feel a reply is needed. In light of the way you framed it, Jay does deserve an apology from the original replier. I think Jay is still on here, but the guy who thread-jacked him is now on his forum. Funny how these things sometimes work out.
Nice comments, Chuck and Daniel. Although I requested two or three times to be removed from this list, it didn't happen. Now I think I had better not get off, if only to watch my back. You can really tell what someone thinks of you when they say it behind your back. I know I am the one Chuck is talking about because I did join Jay's forum. I never intended to "hijack" a thread and I offer my deepest apology to Jay if that is the cause of any problem for him. I have communicated with Jay and he and I have never had any issues. We are OK with each other, and I don't believe he feels hurt or "hijacked" by me. Joe ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] last note On 1/23/12, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
We are losing the young active and knowledgeable members. These people have an interest in Astronomy but not the time to suffer the noise.
They sure seem to have a helluva lot more time than I do. Noise is part of life, for good or ill. But your point is well-taken. And I apologize for taking the bait on that last fiasco. I'm going to ignore OT, thread-jacked posts from now on, or at least make a point to change the subject if I feel a reply is needed. In light of the way you framed it, Jay does deserve an apology from the original replier. I think Jay is still on here, but the guy who thread-jacked him is now on his forum. Funny how these things sometimes work out. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Never meant anything to be behind anyone's back, Joe, and no names were mentioned. It's a public forum, lots of peole are reading this and even if you weren't subscribed, we are sure that the comments would probably get back to you. Just talking about a chain of events and giving a nod to Daniels (and Eriks comments rang at least partly true, to be fair) outline of that series of events. I also apologized for my part in perhaps escalating it, and tried to communicate a strategy for myself that wouldn't get me in the deep end anymore. Still, for the life of me, I can't see uncivility in the original exchange. All I see is disagreement. Seems that differences of opinion are at the core of it, not a lack of decorum or rudeness. Members can unsubscribe themselves, BTW, an admin doesn't have to do it. Several others who's screen names I recognized have joined over there recently, you're not the only one. This is MY last post on anything contentious. Too much sensitivity, too many people offended when no offense is intended- or even expressed. It's just telescopes and kumbaya from now on.
participants (7)
-
Chrismo -
Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
Dave Gary -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Joe Bauman -
Michael Thelen