A comment in Patrick's latest editon of News reminded me of a discussion I recently had with a non-astronomically-inclined acquaintance. Like many people, he abhored Daylight Savings Time, seeing it as an arbitrary fiction of convenience. His reasoning centered around the idea that "it should be noon when the sun is highest in the sky". I conceded that while that idea sounded good, even under Standard Time it only happened if you by chance lived right-on the central meridian of your time zone. If you live at the western or eastern extreme limit of the time zone, the sun is still far from it's highest point- and the borders of those time zones are highly erratic and arbitrary in places. Salt Lake is about 28 minutes off of the central meridian for Mountain Time, meaning even when not on Daylight Saving time, the sun is still about 1/2 hr. away from it's highest point in the sky at noon. An extreme example in the US would be a person living in western Texas, where the sun can be up to an hour off the local meridian at noon, even on Standard Time. In places the Central time zone is well over an hour wide in terms of longitude, as is the Eastern zone in the northern U.S. and southern Canada. And even with that, there are other complications... Standard Time zones were introduced world-wide in 1884. Before then, people used "Apparent Solar Time", or true sun time, which is governed by the passage of the sun across the sky. This is the time reckoned when one reads a sundial, for example. If the sun happens to be right on your LOCAL meridian, then it is exactly noon Apparent Solar Time. Mean Solar Time is an averaged time obtained by dividing 365 days of equal length by all the time in a year. An averaged type of time, it is governed by the "mean sun", and the difference between the apparent (real) sun and the mean (average) sun ranges from zero to about 16 minutes. This correction is sometimes incorporated into your better sundials and sometimes referred to as the "equation of time". A lucid explanation of this difference can be studied at: http://www.sundials.co.uk/equation.htm The notation of time passage (as opposed to merely repetitive and cyclical events) is a strictly human artifact and has no analogy in nature. In fact as we all know, time passes at different rates depending on one's velocity relative to other objects in the universe. Any system of measurement, therefore, is valid as long as it functions reasonably well, and has a working concensus. And I must say I hate sunset at around 5 p.m. for weeks every winter. __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
Chuck Hards wrote:
A comment in Patrick's latest editon of News reminded me of a discussion I recently had with a non-astronomically-inclined acquaintance.
As I emailed Chuck off list, it's not being on silly time that bothers me. It's the way we switch back and forth every year. I'd be happy if we'd just adopt one time and leave it that way year round. 'Course, from what I hear, we (the USA) are now considering extending silly time several more weeks each year. Maybe if we keep that up we'll eventually be on silly time year round... Patrick
Given my 'druthers, I'd stick with DST year-round so I do tend to agree with Patrick actually. I don't mind dark mornings as much as dark "late-afternoons". I start my days so darn early anyway that it's only June and July when it's light enough in the morning to not need headlights. What stuck in the craw of the non-astronomically-inclined acquaintance that inspired my post, wasn't changing clocks so much as a personality quirk that upsets him if natural phenomenon don't line-up in an orderly fashion that suits his sensibilities. He has, to use a terrific old phrase, a "stick up his butt". --- diveboss@xmission.com wrote:
Quoting Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net>:
I'd be happy if we'd just adopt one time and leave it that way year round.
What, changing a clock throw you off your game? ;) If you didn't have DST when would you change the batteries in the alarm in the bat cave?
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--- diveboss@xmission.com wrote:
What, changing a clock throw you off your game? ;) If you didn't have DST when would you change the batteries in the alarm in the bat cave?
I just stay on sidereal time. Saves all the confusion. - Canopus56(Kurt) __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
What confusion? ;) --- Canopus56 <canopus56@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- diveboss@xmission.com wrote:
What, changing a clock throw you off your game? ;) If you didn't have DST when would you change the batteries in the alarm in the bat cave?
I just stay on sidereal time. Saves all the confusion. - Canopus56(Kurt)
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Quoting Canopus56 <canopus56@yahoo.com>:
I just stay on sidereal time. Saves all the confusion. - Canopus56(Kurt)
Kurt, that's one way to deal with it... Rarely do we get a chance to turn the hands of time backwards. Sooo, if you're going to do something stupid, make sure you have an official record of it just before 2:00 a.m. so you'll have an alibi. ;) Patrick, it is now 4:29 p.m., if you start now, you can have all three of your clocks changed by 2:00 a.m. ;) Remember, they go BACK one hour... On the other hand, if you simply choose to ignore the change, and don't do anything, you will rarely be late! Oh yeah, when parachuting, remember you still have to open the chute BEFORE you hit the ground... If you fail to open your chute before hitting the ground, there's no turning the clock back for that! ;) Further reading here: http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/
--- diveboss@xmission.com wrote:
Quoting Canopus56 <canopus56@yahoo.com>:
I just stay on sidereal time. Saves all the confusion. - Canopus56(Kurt)
Kurt, that's one way to deal with it... Rarely do we get a chance to turn the hands of time backwards. . . .
To be of any help, I'd need to be able to turn the clock back one hour plus about 30 thirty years - back when I had some hair. - C __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
participants (4)
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Canopus56 -
Chuck Hards -
diveboss@xmission.com -
Patrick Wiggins