Sheena's looking for star gazing spots
I have to agree with Chuck in the sense that sharing of dark sites doesn't mean many people flock to those sites. I have a google map that shows all the sites, well almost all the sites that I observe or others observe. Kurt Fisher also has one. What happens? Once in a while someone shows up and wanting to learn how to use their telescope. Happened last Friday at the Pit. Mat and I went and while setting up, 3 great people showed up with their 10 inch dob. The owner had just recently ordered a Howie Glatter laser collimation set and since I had one, I showed him how to use it, and he then collimated his ten inch with the tools he had ordered. Mat had brought his 8 inch dob for friends of Jeff P. to use but due to conditions, they didn't do the drive from Salt Lake which was understandable. After finishing my own set up and collimating and aligning, we spent time on Saturn and then using our binocs. After astronomical twilight ended, Mat and I ended up showing the owner, Dave, his nephew Jeremy how to use an atlas like the Sky Pocket Atlas, a Telrad or Rigel, a finderscope and eyepiece to find objects. They found M22, M8, the Trifed and such and worked their way up Sagittarius. After this I showed their niece how to use my own scope to do the same thing. By the end of their evening they had captured M22, M13, M8, M20, M24, M16, M17, M11, M51. We showed them M57 and also how to find the Veil Nebula. They left after 11:30p.m. Here is what Dave shared over on the forum about that evening: "Hi Jay, it was great to meet both you and Mat as well. I can't tell you how much fun we all had, Jeremy told me on the way home that he HAD to have a scope of his own now but he couldn't decide whether to buy one or make one like Mat's. Emily is a little bit shy and I was a little surprised that you got her to do some star hopping with your scope, but she loved it and was talking about it all the way home. We will definitely try to come out again soon. My thanks to both of you, Dave" I share it because that is one way to grow the hobby. It's not the only way but it is one way. I'll point to the night on June 1st that we spent with Dion and I think Dion learned a lot and had fun also. To get people to take their equipment out under dark skies and not be shown objects, but to be taught how to use their equipment is one critical way to get them hooked. It's not the only way, and I admit that because the hobby is big enough for a variety of interests and ways to get involved. There isn't just "one way" to get people involved in the hobby. For me and where I am at in my own progression, I'm young enough still at 48 that I still enjoy the trips to a dark site, observing there and doing my thing there. For others, I realize, that is not their way of enjoying the hobby and they have their way of getting people hooked. There is more than enough room for everyone. It's that old notion of give a person a fish, you feed them for a day. Teach a person to fish and you feed them for a lifetime. I use that analogy in another way. Show someone an object, they are happy for the night, and you may even catch them. Teach them how to find the object and you have a greater chance of getting them involved in the hobby. Do it under dark skies and you just may hook them. YMMV of course but I have no problem sharing in this way. For me, this is my outreach, it's what I've done as an educator to get kids caught up in the hobby. I remember the night that Steve Fisher (where is he by the way?) spent working with a young kid teaching them to use their new Orion 8 inch scope. It was an awesome write up and engagement he did I thought. In truth, as Chuck alludes to, MOST amateurs don't drive the 45 minutes to an hour and a half to the semi or real dark skies we have around the area. So put my name on the list, I'll share the sites and welcome someone to come with their equipment and learn how to use it. I willingly give up my own planned night of observing to do this as we need young people and newer people to get involved in the hobby as much as they want and can. SQM isn't everything, but I have taken multiply readings of the major dark observing sites and know which are the darkest and by how much based on the SQM-L.
Great comments, Jay. For the record, and I am older than you, I still love to go to dark sky sites, but my job schedule pretty much precludes it. On those rare occassions when I have time off, either weather or moon phase rules it out. It's not often that all the prerequisites occur simultaneously. Even when the timing does click, after having gotten up at 3:30 AM and worked 8 to 10 hours in a hot shop, I'm pretty much shot-down by sunset. I'd fall asleep at the wheel or the eyepiece. Too, the gasoline expense can put a major ding in the household budget. That's one reason I like the proximity of SPOC. It's not a true dark site, but much better than my yard and only 25 minutes from my house.. It's too bad the 32" scope has had so many technical problems and down time the past two years. I had big plans for observing and SLAS activities this summer, but losing my two most senior people the first of June assured that those plans wouldn't materialize. I'm hoping that I get a break in September, we'll see. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
I have to agree with Chuck in the sense that sharing of dark sites doesn't mean many people flock to those sites. I have a google map that shows all the sites, well almost all the sites that I observe or others observe. Kurt Fisher also has one. What happens? Once in a while someone shows up and wanting to learn how to use their telescope. Happened last Friday at the Pit. Mat and I went and while setting up, 3 great people showed up with their 10 inch dob. The owner had just recently ordered a Howie Glatter laser collimation set and since I had one, I showed him how to use it, and he then collimated his ten inch with the tools he had ordered. Mat had brought his 8 inch dob for friends of Jeff P. to use but due to conditions, they didn't do the drive from Salt Lake which was understandable.
After finishing my own set up and collimating and aligning, we spent time on Saturn and then using our binocs. After astronomical twilight ended, Mat and I ended up showing the owner, Dave, his nephew Jeremy how to use an atlas like the Sky Pocket Atlas, a Telrad or Rigel, a finderscope and eyepiece to find objects. They found M22, M8, the Trifed and such and worked their way up Sagittarius. After this I showed their niece how to use my own scope to do the same thing. By the end of their evening they had captured M22, M13, M8, M20, M24, M16, M17, M11, M51. We showed them M57 and also how to find the Veil Nebula. They left after 11:30p.m. Here is what Dave shared over on the forum about that evening:
"Hi Jay, it was great to meet both you and Mat as well. I can't tell you how much fun we all had, Jeremy told me on the way home that he HAD to have a scope of his own now but he couldn't decide whether to buy one or make one like Mat's. Emily is a little bit shy and I was a little surprised that you got her to do some star hopping with your scope, but she loved it and was talking about it all the way home. We will definitely try to come out again soon.
My thanks to both of you, Dave"
I share it because that is one way to grow the hobby. It's not the only way but it is one way. I'll point to the night on June 1st that we spent with Dion and I think Dion learned a lot and had fun also. To get people to take their equipment out under dark skies and not be shown objects, but to be taught how to use their equipment is one critical way to get them hooked. It's not the only way, and I admit that because the hobby is big enough for a variety of interests and ways to get involved. There isn't just "one way" to get people involved in the hobby. For me and where I am at in my own progression, I'm young enough still at 48 that I still enjoy the trips to a dark site, observing there and doing my thing there. For others, I realize, that is not their way of enjoying the hobby and they have their way of getting people hooked. There is more than enough room for everyone.
It's that old notion of give a person a fish, you feed them for a day. Teach a person to fish and you feed them for a lifetime. I use that analogy in another way. Show someone an object, they are happy for the night, and you may even catch them. Teach them how to find the object and you have a greater chance of getting them involved in the hobby. Do it under dark skies and you just may hook them. YMMV of course but I have no problem sharing in this way. For me, this is my outreach, it's what I've done as an educator to get kids caught up in the hobby. I remember the night that Steve Fisher (where is he by the way?) spent working with a young kid teaching them to use their new Orion 8 inch scope. It was an awesome write up and engagement he did I thought. In truth, as Chuck alludes to, MOST amateurs don't drive the 45 minutes to an hour and a half to the semi or real dark skies we have around the area. So put my name on the list, I'll share the sites and welcome someone to come with their equipment and learn how to use it. I willingly give up my own planned night of observing to do this as we need young people and newer people to get involved in the hobby as much as they want and can.
SQM isn't everything, but I have taken multiply readings of the major dark observing sites and know which are the darkest and by how much based on the SQM-L. _______________________________________________
Jay: What you witnessed Steve Fisher doing was customer support. Steve sold 8 inch dobs and always helped his customers learn how to use when they took delivery at SPOC. Sadly I know of no other vendor who is willing to do this. I've had people come to a dark site and park close enough that our car doors can ding each other. Then they set up a lx200 so close to my dob that I can't swing my tube past them. Then they demand that I show them how to navigate the menu system on the hand paddle. I tell them that I don't know how and they get depressed. I ask if they have read the instructions and they get indignant and tear down and drive off in a huff. Clearly this guy should have spent some quality time with his scope in his own backyard or even in his living room before venturing forth. The Harmon's parties would be ideal for these amateurs and later SPOC if they are willing to go early and set up before it gets dark and the crowds of viewers show up. The next step is the fish phase. Why should some one learn to fish if he has learned how to sweet talk some one into always giving him a fish? When I help someone, I fully expect them to make an effort to learn. I don't need or want to be manipulated with praise. I don't want to be a guru. Many people never get past the collimation phase because they are convinced that it requires the advanced knowledge of a guru. Sadly there are those who perpetuate this myth out of their own social needs. The same it true of collimation tools. With a minor effort you can learn to collimate just fine without them. The tools have turned into a commercial trap that catches people when they are vulnerable. Sort of like the "extended warranty" or the "heavy duty undercoating" that some unscrupulous car dealers manage to tag their customers with. I'm self taught in most of the endeavors that interest me, and I sort of expect others to do the same. I understand that people learn in different ways and at different speeds, but sooner or later the student has to own the process of learning for himself. DT ________________________________ From: Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 7:32 AM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Sheena's looking for star gazing spots I have to agree with Chuck in the sense that sharing of dark sites doesn't mean many people flock to those sites. I have a google map that shows all the sites, well almost all the sites that I observe or others observe. Kurt Fisher also has one. What happens? Once in a while someone shows up and wanting to learn how to use their telescope. Happened last Friday at the Pit. Mat and I went and while setting up, 3 great people showed up with their 10 inch dob. The owner had just recently ordered a Howie Glatter laser collimation set and since I had one, I showed him how to use it, and he then collimated his ten inch with the tools he had ordered. Mat had brought his 8 inch dob for friends of Jeff P. to use but due to conditions, they didn't do the drive from Salt Lake which was understandable. After finishing my own set up and collimating and aligning, we spent time on Saturn and then using our binocs. After astronomical twilight ended, Mat and I ended up showing the owner, Dave, his nephew Jeremy how to use an atlas like the Sky Pocket Atlas, a Telrad or Rigel, a finderscope and eyepiece to find objects. They found M22, M8, the Trifed and such and worked their way up Sagittarius. After this I showed their niece how to use my own scope to do the same thing. By the end of their evening they had captured M22, M13, M8, M20, M24, M16, M17, M11, M51. We showed them M57 and also how to find the Veil Nebula. They left after 11:30p.m. Here is what Dave shared over on the forum about that evening: "Hi Jay, it was great to meet both you and Mat as well. I can't tell you how much fun we all had, Jeremy told me on the way home that he HAD to have a scope of his own now but he couldn't decide whether to buy one or make one like Mat's. Emily is a little bit shy and I was a little surprised that you got her to do some star hopping with your scope, but she loved it and was talking about it all the way home. We will definitely try to come out again soon. My thanks to both of you, Dave" I share it because that is one way to grow the hobby. It's not the only way but it is one way. I'll point to the night on June 1st that we spent with Dion and I think Dion learned a lot and had fun also. To get people to take their equipment out under dark skies and not be shown objects, but to be taught how to use their equipment is one critical way to get them hooked. It's not the only way, and I admit that because the hobby is big enough for a variety of interests and ways to get involved. There isn't just "one way" to get people involved in the hobby. For me and where I am at in my own progression, I'm young enough still at 48 that I still enjoy the trips to a dark site, observing there and doing my thing there. For others, I realize, that is not their way of enjoying the hobby and they have their way of getting people hooked. There is more than enough room for everyone. It's that old notion of give a person a fish, you feed them for a day. Teach a person to fish and you feed them for a lifetime. I use that analogy in another way. Show someone an object, they are happy for the night, and you may even catch them. Teach them how to find the object and you have a greater chance of getting them involved in the hobby. Do it under dark skies and you just may hook them. YMMV of course but I have no problem sharing in this way. For me, this is my outreach, it's what I've done as an educator to get kids caught up in the hobby. I remember the night that Steve Fisher (where is he by the way?) spent working with a young kid teaching them to use their new Orion 8 inch scope. It was an awesome write up and engagement he did I thought. In truth, as Chuck alludes to, MOST amateurs don't drive the 45 minutes to an hour and a half to the semi or real dark skies we have around the area. So put my name on the list, I'll share the sites and welcome someone to come with their equipment and learn how to use it. I willingly give up my own planned night of observing to do this as we need young people and newer people to get involved in the hobby as much as they want and can. SQM isn't everything, but I have taken multiply readings of the major dark observing sites and know which are the darkest and by how much based on the SQM-L. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Well said, Jay. 73 Sent from my iPad On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:32 AM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
I have to agree with Chuck in the sense that sharing of dark sites doesn't mean many people flock to those sites. I have a google map that shows all the sites, well almost all the sites that I observe or others observe. Kurt Fisher also has one. What happens? Once in a while someone shows up and wanting to learn how to use their telescope. Happened last Friday at the Pit. Mat and I went and while setting up, 3 great people showed up with their 10 inch dob. The owner had just recently ordered a Howie Glatter laser collimation set and since I had one, I showed him how to use it, and he then collimated his ten inch with the tools he had ordered. Mat had brought his 8 inch dob for friends of Jeff P. to use but due to conditions, they didn't do the drive from Salt Lake which was understandable.
After finishing my own set up and collimating and aligning, we spent time on Saturn and then using our binocs. After astronomical twilight ended, Mat and I ended up showing the owner, Dave, his nephew Jeremy how to use an atlas like the Sky Pocket Atlas, a Telrad or Rigel, a finderscope and eyepiece to find objects. They found M22, M8, the Trifed and such and worked their way up Sagittarius. After this I showed their niece how to use my own scope to do the same thing. By the end of their evening they had captured M22, M13, M8, M20, M24, M16, M17, M11, M51. We showed them M57 and also how to find the Veil Nebula. They left after 11:30p.m. Here is what Dave shared over on the forum about that evening:
"Hi Jay, it was great to meet both you and Mat as well. I can't tell you how much fun we all had, Jeremy told me on the way home that he HAD to have a scope of his own now but he couldn't decide whether to buy one or make one like Mat's. Emily is a little bit shy and I was a little surprised that you got her to do some star hopping with your scope, but she loved it and was talking about it all the way home. We will definitely try to come out again soon.
My thanks to both of you, Dave"
I share it because that is one way to grow the hobby. It's not the only way but it is one way. I'll point to the night on June 1st that we spent with Dion and I think Dion learned a lot and had fun also. To get people to take their equipment out under dark skies and not be shown objects, but to be taught how to use their equipment is one critical way to get them hooked. It's not the only way, and I admit that because the hobby is big enough for a variety of interests and ways to get involved. There isn't just "one way" to get people involved in the hobby. For me and where I am at in my own progression, I'm young enough still at 48 that I still enjoy the trips to a dark site, observing there and doing my thing there. For others, I realize, that is not their way of enjoying the hobby and they have their way of getting people hooked. There is more than enough room for everyone.
It's that old notion of give a person a fish, you feed them for a day. Teach a person to fish and you feed them for a lifetime. I use that analogy in another way. Show someone an object, they are happy for the night, and you may even catch them. Teach them how to find the object and you have a greater chance of getting them involved in the hobby. Do it under dark skies and you just may hook them. YMMV of course but I have no problem sharing in this way. For me, this is my outreach, it's what I've done as an educator to get kids caught up in the hobby. I remember the night that Steve Fisher (where is he by the way?) spent working with a young kid teaching them to use their new Orion 8 inch scope. It was an awesome write up and engagement he did I thought. In truth, as Chuck alludes to, MOST amateurs don't drive the 45 minutes to an hour and a half to the semi or real dark skies we have around the area. So put my name on the list, I'll share the sites and welcome someone to come with their equipment and learn how to use it. I willingly give up my own planned night of observing to do this as we need young people and newer people to get involved in the hobby as much as they want and can.
SQM isn't everything, but I have taken multiply readings of the major dark observing sites and know which are the darkest and by how much based on the SQM-L. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
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participants (4)
-
Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
Jay Eads -
Larry Holmes