A sucker hole lasted just long enough tonight for me to try out the 164C with the 1.68mm lens. Unfortunately it did not work well. Not even 2nd magnitude stars registered. Really surprised me as it worked better than the 88WR indoors but the 88WR was clearly better outside under real sky conditions. So if you're happy with a 90 degree FOV and stars of mag +2 or brighter showing up on the monitor go with the PC88WR. But if you want fainter and/or wider you'll need to look elsewhere. patrick