Not many Bergman fans on this list, I can tell. 35 year old memory here, please don't crucify me if I miss a detail. My copy of the book is in a cardboard box buried in my basement. 2001 was an ART film as much as sci-fi; remember this. It's not a mindless "space soap opera" like Star Wars, you're supposed to walk away with more questions than answers, supposed to look inward. I'm assuming that it's the last portion that is misunderstood, but it is explained in the book. It's really just a repeat of the first portion of the film. Commander Bowman actually finds a huge monolith in orbit around Jupiter and "enters" it. The weird scenery depict alien worlds flashing by as he travels the stargate network. TMA-1 was just a device to alert the big monolith in Jovian space that humans had become advanced enough (and survived self-destruction) for the next step in the evolutionary process. Bowman becomes a tool of the alien intelligence and lives his life in a time-compressed fashion, or perhaps a non-linear fashion, from our point of view, within the confines of his own time-space continuum, to be re-born as the "star-child". The star child is the modern equivalent of the ancient monolith found by Moonwatcher and his tribe and serves as the seeds of that next evolutionary step. ("He wasn't sure what he would do next, but would think of something." Remember that's how the Moonwatcher portion ended as well as the end of the book, IIRC...) There's acutally a lot of religious iconography incorporated into the film and the abstractness is a way of presenting it somewhat covertly, Kubrick was probably trying to find some pan-theistic way of reaching as many people as possible without alienating specific faiths. Whether he succeeded or not is not important to the plot. The aliens are benevolent high intelleigences that, while not creating humanity, gave us the "spark" of creativity and set us upon the path to enlightenment. In this regard, they are not "God", but are part of God's plan for mankind, so there's no need for anyone to feel that their belief system is threatened. (It's just a MOVIE.) The whole HAL thing was kind of secondary, a lesson in hubris, designed to wake us up and take us down a peg, deservedly so. The sequels destroyed the simple elegance of the plotline, as it is made to be understood that the aliens themselves have either evolved beyond interest in their original intention or died-off completely, and the monoliths (sentinels) are just running old programs now, albiet about as sophisitcated as automated systems can get in this universe. The "digitized", "etherial", "spiritual" (whatever) version of Bowman realizes this and tries to keep it all together, keep humanity focused in the right direction. But none of the sequels are really of any import or up to the standards of the first film, the original stands alone and can be considered self-contained and complete. Does this help at all, Rich, or do you think I'm nuts? Rich wrote:
Guess I'm nuts, but I HATED 2001. Probably because I just didn't get it, back when it came out as a teen, and years later as an adult when I thought I might finally understand it, I hated it just as much the 2nd time as the first!
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No one mentioned Barbarella yet with Jane Fonda - wasn't that a classic? Maybe not. Testing humor here.
Chuck mentioned it when he shot down my nomination.. "Lost in Space" Danger, Danger Will Smith... :) Siegfried Quoting Jim Stitley <sitf2000@yahoo.com>:
No one mentioned Barbarella yet with Jane Fonda - wasn't that a classic? Maybe not. Testing humor here. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
HHhhmmmmm, I missed his "recommendation" on Barbarella. Chuck amd I must have gone to different schools together :) Jim ziggy943@xmission.com wrote: Chuck mentioned it when he shot down my nomination.. "Lost in Space" Danger, Danger Will Smith... :) Siegfried Quoting Jim Stitley :
No one mentioned Barbarella yet with Jane Fonda - wasn't that a classic? Maybe not. Testing humor here. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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I didn't say he "recommended" it, only that he mentioned it. I think he put it in the same class as "Lost in Space," i.e., not among those in the best category. Quoting Jim Stitley <sitf2000@yahoo.com>:
HHhhmmmmm, I missed his "recommendation" on Barbarella. Chuck amd I must have gone to different schools together :) Jim
ziggy943@xmission.com wrote: Chuck mentioned it when he shot down my nomination.. "Lost in Space" Danger, Danger Will Smith... :)
Siegfried
Quoting Jim Stitley :
No one mentioned Barbarella yet with Jane Fonda - wasn't that a classic? Maybe not. Testing humor here. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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Chuck, Of course that all helps a great deal. But try getting all that out of the film alone and you would have to have quite a remarkable imagination. If I'm remembering correctly, the seminal short story the film is loosely based on takes place on the earth's moon. Look for it if you haven't read it. Thanks again for the enlightenment! Rich --- Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not many Bergman fans on this list, I can tell.
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I'm with you, Rich. 2001 was not a good movie. I DID understand the movie, but for me it died in editing. It was interminably L-O-N-G, and the special effects were just OK. I saw nothing particularly etherial nor spiritual, nor causing introspection. It was a good story line that was made too long. I cannot watch it to this day because it is so slow moving. I have better things to do. I, too am a Star Trek fan. My favorite is ST2, because I helped make it. If you wait long enough you will see my name in the credits. The TV series - all three of them are good in their own way. DS9 on the other hand was not up to the same standard. I really enjoyed Forbidden Planet and WoW when they came out. I still enjoy watching Forbidden Planet, and occasionally WoW. But the one that scares me is Fire in the Sky. Now that movie has some real disturbing implications to my way of thinking. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
I'm a Star Trek fan also.. and I never did get used to watching DS9. Not only was it shown in an odd time slot, it just never really struck me as being a good series (though I'm not too crazy about Enterprise now, I'm watching it anyway). My favorite Star Trek was Voyager. =) I've actually been renting the series from the library (and yeah Chuck, it can tend to be scratched, unfortunately, but I'm not willing/able to pay $400 for an entire TV series lol) and it is as good as I remember. Another Sci Fi show I like is Stargate. I didn't have Showtime when it started, so missed a lot. But last summer I had an injury and was supposed to stay off my feet, and a friend of mine bought the whole series and loaned them to me. I really like it now that I understand what is going on. =) And of course, I'll pipe in for Red Dwarf, too, what a hilarious show. And shall we not forget, of movies, Galaxy Quest? Oh my gosh, I die laughing every time I see that. =) Cyn Brent Watson wrote:
I, too am a Star Trek fan. My favorite is ST2, because I helped make it. If you wait long enough you will see my name in the credits. The TV series - all three of them are good in their own way. DS9 on the other hand was not up to the same standard.
-- CH Pembroke Faded Glory NA NAJ NAC NAJ TN-N Elsinore Lucilla Aurelius CGC Angel Pumpkin Spice Lady CGC Spirit Chasers Spice http://www.utahdogs.com http://www.cynthiablue.net
FWIW, my hard-core Sci-Fi friends (including Mark Dakins) claim that the best SF show ever made for TV was Babylon 5. I never saw it consistently or often enough to have an opinion, but they say if you watch it from the beginning you will be impressed... --- Cynthia Blue <leviblue@utahdogs.com> wrote:
Another Sci Fi show I like is Stargate.
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I enjoyed Babylon 5 but I can't say it was the best SF show ever made for TV. However, I picked it up mid-season so maybe I didn't get the entire gist of it. =) Richard Tenney wrote:
FWIW, my hard-core Sci-Fi friends (including Mark Dakins) claim that the best SF show ever made for TV was Babylon 5. I never saw it consistently or often enough to have an opinion, but they say if you watch it from the beginning you will be impressed...
--- Cynthia Blue <leviblue@utahdogs.com> wrote:
Another Sci Fi show I like is Stargate.
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participants (6)
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Brent Watson -
Chuck Hards -
Cynthia Blue -
Jim Stitley -
Richard Tenney -
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