I agree with some of Dans points, we do need to be more diverse than SPOC, which we are. Bruce has said that he feels that SPOC Star Parties do not need to be more frequent, those folks have other interests (Tooele folks). The majority of SLAS is in the SL Valley and we need to keep activities alive in SLC as well. I support SPOC as much as anyone (well not more than the Tooele residents), but I am reluctant to drive out there more than 3-4 times a month, for me fuel cost is an issue. Harmons and SPOC Star parties are not going away, but we have had a third site before (little mountain) and they were popular Star Parties, for the club and the public. The Board has relaxed donations for Star Parties practices, we should not have highest bidder competition. I think the money we get from SL County is a donation from tax payers and should count for something in regard to school star parties. Organizations have used us for some of their fund raising and we should be compensated by those groups. SLAS members do put forth effort for these and I see no problem with getting donations, we do have expenses and Utah does benefit from our activities. In the past we where an inexpensive option, in that the Planetarium had a MUCH higher fee. Erik --- outwest112@yahoo.com wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:58:12 -0700 (PDT) This is a healthy discussion. I have not been offended by anything said so far, nor a I likely to be. I don't take myself that serious. I guess the question of star party policy ties in to the bigger picture of where SLAS fits into the astronomy community and how this has changed over time. SLAS has a lot of emotional investment in SPOC as well as the money that was spent there. New ideas that may compete with SPOC for our attention are greeted with resistance. Events outside of SPOC, new or old, are viewed with suspicion if not actively undermined. That includes the "This is the Place" venue and the special star parties. Yet to make SLAS a "SPOC first" club is a serios mistake in my opinion. People don't want to drive to SPOC, stand in long lines and have the doors closed on them at 11 pm. People these days have the option of buying their own telescope and after a short learning curve they no longer need the observatory. They may go to SPOC to set up on the lawn a few times but they soon find that they can go anywhere in Utah where it's dark and on their own time. I believe the era of good mass produced telescopes is making the observatory and even large group star parties much less important. The National Park star parties have their own issues besides the driving distances. Their size cam be intimidating and some of the staff seem to have control issues. They are attended by people who only get out a few times a year and so service a smaller group who might not go to other events. They don't really compete with SPOC directly. The special star parties have undergone a change since I joined the club. We now do them for money and that changes the whole dynamic of the events. The going rate is $50 a telescope and sometimes there is a set number minimum or maximum that needs to be met. This has moved us away from charity events like cancer and diabetes and toward sites like Sundance, Solitude, and corporate groups like Discovey. I've met some one who would like to compete with us for school parties by offering a lower price. He thinks our prices are too high. I've seen charity events canceled because other clubs consider the event the be "their customer" and we were "poaching". My preference would be to do these events for free. I certainly alway did them for free and if the money is gone maybe the spirit of giving would come back. In closing I feel that cutting back or not considering events outside of SPOC would be a mistake. The world has moved beyond "brick and mortar astronomy" (Chuck Hard's term for it). People have options that they didn't have 40 years ago when SLAS was started. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com