Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses. So, if you aren't interested, don't read on. Again, my apologies. Below is the text of the letter I've drafted for Senator Buttars. I decided to send it under my business letterhead, mainly because I couldn't think of anything else appropriate. I'm open to ideas, though. Please comment off-list, if you wish. I plan to put it in the mail tomorrow morning. August 11, 2005 Senator Chris Buttars 9241 South Lisa Avenue West Jordan, Utah 84088 Re: Creationism and Utah Public Schools Dear Senator Buttars: For the record, I sent you an email earlier today asking for clarification from you about the referenced issue. I realize that you must be very busy and likely cannot respond within such a short time to email from concerned citizens. However, I wanted to contact you soon regarding this matter and, hopefully, reach you by mail by the week's end. For some time I have observed the continuing debate in other states regarding the effort by some conservative religionists to require that creationism be reintroduced into the public school curricula. On June 6th of this year, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that you, backed by the special interest lobby, the Utah Eagle Forum, planned to introduce legislation that would require that creationism be taught in Utah's public schools. Prior to reading that article, I believed the Utah's citizens were above this debate. Your remarks proved that I was mistaken. Since that June article, I have read another Tribune article, dated August 3rd, wherein you were again quoted about this issue. Finally, I read your column at Yahoo News, dated August 9th, that more clearly outlines your personal views. While I wish to avoid a personal attack, I must first point out that you appear to be uninformed regarding Darwinism, evolution theory, and science, in general. It is not my intent to debate science and religion with you, but I encourage you to become better acquainted with both the scientific process and the language of science before you speak again so publicly about science, religion and creationism. I am very concerned about your intent to have your values and those of the Utah Eagle Forum taught in the science classroom. Religion under any guise, whether you call it creationism, intelligent design, or divine design, does not belong in a science curriculum. If Utah public schools have the budget to initiate classes that teach comparative religion, then that may certainly be an appropriate venue for your views and those of other like-minded citizens. I probably need not remind you, however, that in such circumstances, your views are equally valid as those of the proponents of Druidism, Santeria, Wicca, atheists, and even what you might call "liberal" Christians. It is a grave mistake to take Utah down the road of replacing rational inquiry and debate with mysticism and faith-based beliefs. Western civilization once took that path. We call that period of history the Dark Ages. Scientists don't pretend to instruct us about religion; unknowledgeable persons of faith shouldn't instruct us about science; politicians, including you, shouldn't instruct us about either. Please keep religious instruction and debate where it belongs, in Utah's homes and places of worship. Sincerely, Kim A. Hyatt I am a member of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society. The following are fellow amateur astronomers/scientists who have asked that I add their names to this letter: Michael Carnes, Salt Lake City Scott Catron, Sandy Richard Tenney, Provo Kathleen Warner, Salt Lake City Ken Warner, Salt Lake City Paul Witte, Provo C: Darin Peterson, Utah State Senate, District 24 Richard W. Wheeler, Utah House of Representatives, District 68 Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum Joe Bauman, Deseret News Glen Warchol, Salt Lake Tribune
Kim, Well stated, but I live in Lindon, not Provo. Rich --- Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses. So, if you aren't interested, don't read on. Again, my apologies.
Below is the text of the letter I've drafted for Senator Buttars. I decided to send it under my business letterhead, mainly because I couldn't think of anything else appropriate. I'm open to ideas, though. Please comment off-list, if you wish. I plan to put it in the mail tomorrow morning.
August 11, 2005
Senator Chris Buttars
9241 South Lisa Avenue
West Jordan, Utah 84088
Re: Creationism and Utah Public Schools
Dear Senator Buttars:
For the record, I sent you an email earlier today asking for clarification from you about the referenced issue. I realize that you must be very busy and likely cannot respond within such a short time to email from concerned citizens. However, I wanted to contact you soon regarding this matter and, hopefully, reach you by mail by the week's end.
For some time I have observed the continuing debate in other states regarding the effort by some conservative religionists to require that creationism be reintroduced into the public school curricula. On June 6th of this year, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that you, backed by the special interest lobby, the Utah Eagle Forum, planned to introduce legislation that would require that creationism be taught in Utah's public schools. Prior to reading that article, I believed the Utah's citizens were above this debate. Your remarks proved that I was mistaken. Since that June article, I have read another Tribune article, dated August 3rd, wherein you were again quoted about this issue. Finally, I read your column at Yahoo News, dated August 9th, that more clearly outlines your personal views.
While I wish to avoid a personal attack, I must first point out that you appear to be uninformed regarding Darwinism, evolution theory, and science, in general. It is not my intent to debate science and religion with you, but I encourage you to become better acquainted with both the scientific process and the language of science before you speak again so publicly about science, religion and creationism.
I am very concerned about your intent to have your values and those of the Utah Eagle Forum taught in the science classroom. Religion under any guise, whether you call it creationism, intelligent design, or divine design, does not belong in a science curriculum. If Utah public schools have the budget to initiate classes that teach comparative religion, then that may certainly be an appropriate venue for your views and those of other like-minded citizens. I probably need not remind you, however, that in such circumstances, your views are equally valid as those of the proponents of Druidism, Santeria, Wicca, atheists, and even what you might call "liberal" Christians. It is a grave mistake to take Utah down the road of replacing rational inquiry and debate with mysticism and faith-based beliefs. Western civilization once took that path. We call that period of history the Dark Ages.
Scientists don't pretend to instruct us about religion; unknowledgeable persons of faith shouldn't instruct us about science; politicians, including you, shouldn't instruct us about either. Please keep religious instruction and debate where it belongs, in Utah's homes and places of worship.
Sincerely,
Kim A. Hyatt
I am a member of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society. The following are fellow amateur astronomers/scientists who have asked that I add their names to this letter:
Michael Carnes, Salt Lake City
Scott Catron, Sandy
Richard Tenney, Provo
Kathleen Warner, Salt Lake City
Ken Warner, Salt Lake City
Paul Witte, Provo
C: Darin Peterson, Utah State Senate, District 24
Richard W. Wheeler, Utah House of Representatives, District 68
Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum
Joe Bauman, Deseret News
Glen Warchol, Salt Lake Tribune _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Yes, it was well done, Ken and I live in South Jordan though, not Salt Lake City. Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> wrote:Kim, Well stated, but I live in Lindon, not Provo. Rich --- Kim Hyatt wrote:
Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses. So, if you aren't interested, don't read on. Again, my apologies.
Below is the text of the letter I've drafted for Senator Buttars. I decided to send it under my business letterhead, mainly because I couldn't think of anything else appropriate. I'm open to ideas, though. Please comment off-list, if you wish. I plan to put it in the mail tomorrow morning.
August 11, 2005
Senator Chris Buttars
9241 South Lisa Avenue
West Jordan, Utah 84088
Re: Creationism and Utah Public Schools
Dear Senator Buttars:
For the record, I sent you an email earlier today asking for clarification from you about the referenced issue. I realize that you must be very busy and likely cannot respond within such a short time to email from concerned citizens. However, I wanted to contact you soon regarding this matter and, hopefully, reach you by mail by the week's end.
For some time I have observed the continuing debate in other states regarding the effort by some conservative religionists to require that creationism be reintroduced into the public school curricula. On June 6th of this year, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that you, backed by the special interest lobby, the Utah Eagle Forum, planned to introduce legislation that would require that creationism be taught in Utah's public schools. Prior to reading that article, I believed the Utah's citizens were above this debate. Your remarks proved that I was mistaken. Since that June article, I have read another Tribune article, dated August 3rd, wherein you were again quoted about this issue. Finally, I read your column at Yahoo News, dated August 9th, that more clearly outlines your personal views.
While I wish to avoid a personal attack, I must first point out that you appear to be uninformed regarding Darwinism, evolution theory, and science, in general. It is not my intent to debate science and religion with you, but I encourage you to become better acquainted with both the scientific process and the language of science before you speak again so publicly about science, religion and creationism.
I am very concerned about your intent to have your values and those of the Utah Eagle Forum taught in the science classroom. Religion under any guise, whether you call it creationism, intelligent design, or divine design, does not belong in a science curriculum. If Utah public schools have the budget to initiate classes that teach comparative religion, then that may certainly be an appropriate venue for your views and those of other like-minded citizens. I probably need not remind you, however, that in such circumstances, your views are equally valid as those of the proponents of Druidism, Santeria, Wicca, atheists, and even what you might call "liberal" Christians. It is a grave mistake to take Utah down the road of replacing rational inquiry and debate with mysticism and faith-based beliefs. Western civilization once took that path. We call that period of history the Dark Ages.
Scientists don't pretend to instruct us about religion; unknowledgeable persons of faith shouldn't instruct us about science; politicians, including you, shouldn't instruct us about either. Please keep religious instruction and debate where it belongs, in Utah's homes and places of worship.
Sincerely,
Kim A. Hyatt
I am a member of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society. The following are fellow amateur astronomers/scientists who have asked that I add their names to this letter:
Michael Carnes, Salt Lake City
Scott Catron, Sandy
Richard Tenney, Provo
Kathleen Warner, Salt Lake City
Ken Warner, Salt Lake City
Paul Witte, Provo
C: Darin Peterson, Utah State Senate, District 24
Richard W. Wheeler, Utah House of Representatives, District 68
Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum
Joe Bauman, Deseret News
Glen Warchol, Salt Lake Tribune _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Kim, While this is a noble and good effort, I fear however that it will fall on deaf ears, for at least 4 reasons: 1. As the old saying goes, "A man 'convinced' against his will is of the same opinion still". 2. The letter does not address his earlier challenge, namely, that "the only people who will oppose this bill are godless athiest scientists", or words to that effect. We will only sound like more of the same to him. 3. Like Bill said, this is more about politics than personal religious conviction, which I'm sure in his case is both. He's got a significant fundamentalist voting base he wants to maintain. 4. He's got personal reasons to pursue this bill, and stands to gain from it, win or lose. What he's really after, I believe, is to ultimately gain support for tuition tax credits. Why? In part, becase he personally owns and runs a private school! If along the way he can convince a number of people that their precious children are being corrupted by wicked atheists in the public school system, by all means send them to (his) private school, where they're sure to be taught "correct doctrine and principles"! What? you can't afford private school? No problem! I'll make sure we pass a tuition tax credit to make it affordable. What? Conflict of interest? Moi? Ha!". -Rich --- Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses.
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Thanks all for your comments. I've made one correction at the request of Siegfried Jachmann and removed mention of SLAS. Jim, I also added your name - thanks. The letter will go in the mail as soon as I get up from my desk and go to the post office. Rich, I concur with your comments, but I decided to frame the letter as I did for the following reasons: 1. I didn't want to dignify Buttars' ignorant remarks about science, scientists and us "atheists" by responding. As you point out, he's unlikely to be persuaded, anyway. 2. I'd be happy to debate the issue with Buttars, but that isn't the purpose of this letter. I wanted to alert him that there are still people in Utah who adamantly oppose his views, namely that creationism should be taught in public schools. I encourage anyone else who has an opinion about this (one way or the other - we are still a free nation) to contact your legislators. You can find out who they are and how to reach them at the Utah legislature website: http://www.le.state.ut.us/. Thanks again. I'll keep y'all aprized of any future developments. Kim
Those are good points too. I didn't know Buttars owned a private school. It's making more sense now. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have some politicians who just truly tried to do the right thing for the sake of it being right and to honestly represent their constituents instead of always having ulterior motives for their own self interest. Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> wrote:Kim, While this is a noble and good effort, I fear however that it will fall on deaf ears, for at least 4 reasons: 1. As the old saying goes, "A man 'convinced' against his will is of the same opinion still". 2. The letter does not address his earlier challenge, namely, that "the only people who will oppose this bill are godless athiest scientists", or words to that effect. We will only sound like more of the same to him. 3. Like Bill said, this is more about politics than personal religious conviction, which I'm sure in his case is both. He's got a significant fundamentalist voting base he wants to maintain. 4. He's got personal reasons to pursue this bill, and stands to gain from it, win or lose. What he's really after, I believe, is to ultimately gain support for tuition tax credits. Why? In part, becase he personally owns and runs a private school! If along the way he can convince a number of people that their precious children are being corrupted by wicked atheists in the public school system, by all means send them to (his) private school, where they're sure to be taught "correct doctrine and principles"! What? you can't afford private school? No problem! I'll make sure we pass a tuition tax credit to make it affordable. What? Conflict of interest? Moi? Ha!". -Rich --- Kim Hyatt wrote:
Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses.
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Kim, Feel free to ad my name to you list. I am a scientist (biochemist) and also a very spiritual person, but clearly see the different roles and patrhs of each. We live in West Joedan. Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote: Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses. So, if you aren't interested, don't read on. Again, my apologies. Below is the text of the letter I've drafted for Senator Buttars. I decided to send it under my business letterhead, mainly because I couldn't think of anything else appropriate. I'm open to ideas, though. Please comment off-list, if you wish. I plan to put it in the mail tomorrow morning. August 11, 2005 Senator Chris Buttars 9241 South Lisa Avenue West Jordan, Utah 84088 Re: Creationism and Utah Public Schools Dear Senator Buttars: For the record, I sent you an email earlier today asking for clarification from you about the referenced issue. I realize that you must be very busy and likely cannot respond within such a short time to email from concerned citizens. However, I wanted to contact you soon regarding this matter and, hopefully, reach you by mail by the week's end. For some time I have observed the continuing debate in other states regarding the effort by some conservative religionists to require that creationism be reintroduced into the public school curricula. On June 6th of this year, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that you, backed by the special interest lobby, the Utah Eagle Forum, planned to introduce legislation that would require that creationism be taught in Utah's public schools. Prior to reading that article, I believed the Utah's citizens were above this debate. Your remarks proved that I was mistaken. Since that June article, I have read another Tribune article, dated August 3rd, wherein you were again quoted about this issue. Finally, I read your column at Yahoo News, dated August 9th, that more clearly outlines your personal views. While I wish to avoid a personal attack, I must first point out that you appear to be uninformed regarding Darwinism, evolution theory, and science, in general. It is not my intent to debate science and religion with you, but I encourage you to become better acquainted with both the scientific process and the language of science before you speak again so publicly about science, religion and creationism. I am very concerned about your intent to have your values and those of the Utah Eagle Forum taught in the science classroom. Religion under any guise, whether you call it creationism, intelligent design, or divine design, does not belong in a science curriculum. If Utah public schools have the budget to initiate classes that teach comparative religion, then that may certainly be an appropriate venue for your views and those of other like-minded citizens. I probably need not remind you, however, that in such circumstances, your views are equally valid as those of the proponents of Druidism, Santeria, Wicca, atheists, and even what you might call "liberal" Christians. It is a grave mistake to take Utah down the road of replacing rational inquiry and debate with mysticism and faith-based beliefs. Western civilization once took that path. We call that period of history the Dark Ages. Scientists don't pretend to instruct us about religion; unknowledgeable persons of faith shouldn't instruct us about science; politicians, including you, shouldn't instruct us about either. Please keep religious instruction and debate where it belongs, in Utah's homes and places of worship. Sincerely, Kim A. Hyatt I am a member of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society. The following are fellow amateur astronomers/scientists who have asked that I add their names to this letter: Michael Carnes, Salt Lake City Scott Catron, Sandy Richard Tenney, Provo Kathleen Warner, Salt Lake City Ken Warner, Salt Lake City Paul Witte, Provo C: Darin Peterson, Utah State Senate, District 24 Richard W. Wheeler, Utah House of Representatives, District 68 Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum Joe Bauman, Deseret News Glen Warchol, Salt Lake Tribune _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I wonder if I could have these letterslimited to just the activities you have. This is way tomuch mail. Jim Stitley <sitf2000@yahoo.com> wrote:Kim, Feel free to ad my name to you list. I am a scientist (biochemist) and also a very spiritual person, but clearly see the different roles and patrhs of each. We live in West Joedan. Kim Hyatt wrote: Forgive me, all - I couldn't find a way to post this letter to my album or easily email only to those who asked that I include their names, since I didn't have all email addresses. So, if you aren't interested, don't read on. Again, my apologies. Below is the text of the letter I've drafted for Senator Buttars. I decided to send it under my business letterhead, mainly because I couldn't think of anything else appropriate. I'm open to ideas, though. Please comment off-list, if you wish. I plan to put it in the mail tomorrow morning. August 11, 2005 Senator Chris Buttars 9241 South Lisa Avenue West Jordan, Utah 84088 Re: Creationism and Utah Public Schools Dear Senator Buttars: For the record, I sent you an email earlier today asking for clarification from you about the referenced issue. I realize that you must be very busy and likely cannot respond within such a short time to email from concerned citizens. However, I wanted to contact you soon regarding this matter and, hopefully, reach you by mail by the week's end. For some time I have observed the continuing debate in other states regarding the effort by some conservative religionists to require that creationism be reintroduced into the public school curricula. On June 6th of this year, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that you, backed by the special interest lobby, the Utah Eagle Forum, planned to introduce legislation that would require that creationism be taught in Utah's public schools. Prior to reading that article, I believed the Utah's citizens were above this debate. Your remarks proved that I was mistaken. Since that June article, I have read another Tribune article, dated August 3rd, wherein you were again quoted about this issue. Finally, I read your column at Yahoo News, dated August 9th, that more clearly outlines your personal views. While I wish to avoid a personal attack, I must first point out that you appear to be uninformed regarding Darwinism, evolution theory, and science, in general. It is not my intent to debate science and religion with you, but I encourage you to become better acquainted with both the scientific process and the language of science before you speak again so publicly about science, religion and creationism. I am very concerned about your intent to have your values and those of the Utah Eagle Forum taught in the science classroom. Religion under any guise, whether you call it creationism, intelligent design, or divine design, does not belong in a science curriculum. If Utah public schools have the budget to initiate classes that teach comparative religion, then that may certainly be an appropriate venue for your views and those of other like-minded citizens. I probably need not remind you, however, that in such circumstances, your views are equally valid as those of the proponents of Druidism, Santeria, Wicca, atheists, and even what you might call "liberal" Christians. It is a grave mistake to take Utah down the road of replacing rational inquiry and debate with mysticism and faith-based beliefs. Western civilization once took that path. We call that period of history the Dark Ages. Scientists don't pretend to instruct us about religion; unknowledgeable persons of faith shouldn't instruct us about science; politicians, including you, shouldn't instruct us about either. Please keep religious instruction and debate where it belongs, in Utah's homes and places of worship. Sincerely, Kim A. Hyatt I am a member of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society. The following are fellow amateur astronomers/scientists who have asked that I add their names to this letter: Michael Carnes, Salt Lake City Scott Catron, Sandy Richard Tenney, Provo Kathleen Warner, Salt Lake City Ken Warner, Salt Lake City Paul Witte, Provo C: Darin Peterson, Utah State Senate, District 24 Richard W. Wheeler, Utah House of Representatives, District 68 Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum Joe Bauman, Deseret News Glen Warchol, Salt Lake Tribune _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
participants (5)
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Jim Stitley -
Kim Hyatt -
Melana urianza -
Richard Tenney -
South Jordan Mom