Re: [Utah-astronomy] Where is power needed?
I use high power for high surface brightness planetary nebulae like the Blue Snowball. These bright planetary nebulae take magnification well. High power eyepieces are also useful for splitting close double stars when seeing permits. Gamma Virginis or Zeta Cancri (triple star) would be a good candidate for the new NagIers. I use my 4mm Radian on objects like the Blue Snowball, Ring Nebula, Saturn Nebula, and Eskimo Nebula. On my 15" Obsession f/4.5 this gives me about 430X . The 3mm Radian would put me at 571X. This is close to that 600X magnification limit you were talking about. I haven't tried the 4mm on planets yet because the seeing hasn't allowed it yet. The new 3.5mm Nagler would give me 490X on my Obsession. This would help me see some of the Minkowski planetaries better. These objects also require high power. Hope this helps. Debbie
People, now is not the time for back-biting and blaming. Those who have been actively involved deserve our appreciation, regardless of yesterday's failure in the legislature. I personally have been an individual member of IDA for years, but I had to withold my dues last year for financial reasons (it was either them, or SLAS!) but I hope to re-up soon. I am extremely grateful for the work of the staff of Utah Skies, and everone else who has given time or money to the cause. This fight could take years, decades. The war has barely begun! We must stick together! In other cases around the country, however, astronomy is usually not mentioned up-front the way it was in our own case. Improved security and cost savings must be stressed foremost, this is what will sway the masses. Let their own wallets do the talking for us, once presented with the facts. Aesthetic reasons simply must take a back seat, as, unfortunately, must medical and environmental concerns (thanks to Jim Hansen for this attitude in Utah :P ) Talk-shows must be attended, not just the Doug-Wright type show, but the "outdoors" shows as well, armed with the facts. Hand-outs at star-parties. Newspaper ads, church bulletin ads, outdoor-oriented magazine ads. I think it was way too optimistic to expect instant results from this first pass through the legislature. The propaganda war must preceed the shooting, and I think this came up too suddenly to expect a miracle. But keep up the effort! Determination will pay-off, if not for us, for those who come after. The only nice thing about light pollution is that is is reversable, given time. Now everyone shake hands and get back to work! C. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
My experience a few years ago with the Orem City Council proved that all the logic in the world won't dissuade idiots from going ahead with what they really want. Anyway, you've perhaps heard this before, but I think it's a fitting time to bring it up in regards to attitudes that have got all of us riled up over the light pollution initiative and the predictable reception it received by our local reps. Here goes: "We differ, blind and seeing, one from another -- not in our senses, but in the use we make of them, in the imagination and courage with which we seek wisdom beyond our senses... "I have walked with people whose eyes are full of light, but who see nothing in wood, sea or sky, nothing in the city streets, nothing in books. What a witless masquerade is this seeing! It were better far to sail for ever in the night of blindness, with sense and feeling and mind, than to be thus content with the mere act of seeing. They have the sunset, the morning skies, the purple of distant hills -- yet their souls voyage through this enchanted world with a barren stare." - Helen Keller, 1904 Some people will NEVER understand why seeing the milky way is a precious right both we and our grandchildren deserve. Billboard owners, who were the most outspoken critics of this, and the senators that support them, are like distributors of pornography; they don't care if it offends some, spoils the view, etc., so long as it provides lucrative business opportunity, and consequently pays taxes. The only thing I believe will work, as Chuck says, is education of the masses, with emphasis that will appeal to the pocketbooks of all involved (well, okay, the power company folks will never support this!). As Helen so eloquently stated, too many of them are wandering around with that barren stare to appeal to any sense of asthetics or wonder, sad as that is. -Rich --- Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> wrote:
People, now is not the time for back-biting and blaming.
Those who have been actively involved deserve our appreciation, regardless of yesterday's failure in the legislature.
I personally have been an individual member of IDA for years, but I had to withold my dues last year for financial reasons (it was either them, or SLAS!) but I hope to re-up soon. I am extremely grateful for the work of the staff of Utah Skies, and everone else who has given time or money to the cause.
This fight could take years, decades. The war has barely begun! We must stick together!
In other cases around the country, however, astronomy is usually not mentioned up-front the way it was in our own case. Improved security and cost savings must be stressed foremost, this is what will sway the masses. Let their own wallets do the talking for us, once presented with the facts. Aesthetic reasons simply must take a back seat, as, unfortunately, must medical and environmental concerns (thanks to Jim Hansen for this attitude in Utah :P )
Talk-shows must be attended, not just the Doug-Wright type show, but the "outdoors" shows as well, armed with the facts. Hand-outs at star-parties. Newspaper ads, church bulletin ads, outdoor-oriented magazine ads.
I think it was way too optimistic to expect instant results from this first pass through the legislature. The propaganda war must preceed the shooting, and I think this came up too suddenly to expect a miracle.
But keep up the effort! Determination will pay-off, if not for us, for those who come after. The only nice thing about light pollution is that is is reversable, given time.
Now everyone shake hands and get back to work!
C.
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Sorry about blowing my stack last night. I realize that I was "preaching to the choir". Greg --- Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> wrote:
My experience a few years ago with the Orem City Council proved that all the logic in the world won't dissuade idiots from going ahead with what they really want.
Anyway, you've perhaps heard this before, but I think it's a fitting time to bring it up in regards to attitudes that have got all of us riled up over the light pollution initiative and the predictable reception it received by our local reps. Here goes:
"We differ, blind and seeing, one from another -- not in our senses, but in the use we make of them, in the imagination and courage with which we seek wisdom beyond our senses...
"I have walked with people whose eyes are full of light, but who see nothing in wood, sea or sky, nothing in the city streets, nothing in books. What a witless masquerade is this seeing! It were better far to sail for ever in the night of blindness, with sense and feeling and mind, than to be thus content with the mere act of seeing. They have the sunset, the morning skies, the purple of distant hills -- yet their souls voyage through this enchanted world with a barren stare." - Helen Keller, 1904
Some people will NEVER understand why seeing the milky way is a precious right both we and our grandchildren deserve. Billboard owners, who were the most outspoken critics of this, and the senators that support them, are like distributors of pornography; they don't care if it offends some, spoils the view, etc., so long as it provides lucrative business opportunity, and consequently pays taxes.
The only thing I believe will work, as Chuck says, is education of the masses, with emphasis that will appeal to the pocketbooks of all involved (well, okay, the power company folks will never support this!). As Helen so eloquently stated, too many of them are wandering around with that barren stare to appeal to any sense of asthetics or wonder, sad as that is.
-Rich
--- Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> wrote:
People, now is not the time for back-biting and blaming.
Those who have been actively involved deserve our appreciation, regardless of yesterday's failure in the legislature.
I personally have been an individual member of IDA for years, but I had to withold my dues last year for financial reasons (it was either them, or SLAS!) but I hope to re-up soon. I am extremely grateful for the work of the staff of Utah Skies, and everone else who has given time or money to the cause.
This fight could take years, decades. The war has barely begun! We must stick together!
In other cases around the country, however, astronomy is usually not mentioned up-front the way it was in our own case. Improved security and cost savings must be stressed foremost, this is what will sway the masses. Let their own wallets do the talking for us, once presented with the facts. Aesthetic reasons simply must take a back seat, as, unfortunately, must medical and environmental concerns (thanks to Jim Hansen for this attitude in Utah :P )
Talk-shows must be attended, not just the Doug-Wright type show, but the "outdoors" shows as well, armed with the facts. Hand-outs at star-parties. Newspaper ads, church bulletin ads, outdoor-oriented magazine ads.
I think it was way too optimistic to expect instant results from this first pass through the legislature. The propaganda war must preceed the shooting, and I think this came up too suddenly to expect a miracle.
But keep up the effort! Determination will pay-off, if not for us, for those who come after. The only
nice thing about light pollution is that is is reversable, given time.
Now everyone shake hands and get back to work!
C.
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Excellent suggestions, Debbie! Minkowski planetaries, no less! I can tell that your skies are MUCH better than mine! Did you ever get the Schmidt-Cass collimated? Chuck --- UTAHDEB@aol.com wrote:
I use high power for high surface brightness planetary nebulae like the Blue Snowball. These bright planetary nebulae take magnification well. High power eyepieces are also useful for splitting close double stars when seeing permits. Gamma Virginis or Zeta Cancri (triple star) would be a good candidate for the new NagIers.
I use my 4mm Radian on objects like the Blue Snowball, Ring Nebula, Saturn Nebula, and Eskimo Nebula. On my 15" Obsession f/4.5 this gives me about 430X . The 3mm Radian would put me at 571X. This is close to that 600X magnification limit you were talking about. I haven't tried the 4mm on planets yet because the seeing hasn't allowed it yet.
The new 3.5mm Nagler would give me 490X on my Obsession. This would help me see some of the Minkowski planetaries better. These objects also require high power. Hope this helps.
Debbie
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Debbie Thanks for the insight. I have alot to think about. Jim UTAHDEB@aol.com wrote: I use high power for high surface brightness planetary nebulae like the Blue Snowball. These bright planetary nebulae take magnification well. High power eyepieces are also useful for splitting close double stars when seeing permits. Gamma Virginis or Zeta Cancri (triple star) would be a good candidate for the new NagIers. I use my 4mm Radian on objects like the Blue Snowball, Ring Nebula, Saturn Nebula, and Eskimo Nebula. On my 15" Obsession f/4.5 this gives me about 430X . The 3mm Radian would put me at 571X. This is close to that 600X magnification limit you were talking about. I haven't tried the 4mm on planets yet because the seeing hasn't allowed it yet. The new 3.5mm Nagler would give me 490X on my Obsession. This would help me see some of the Minkowski planetaries better. These objects also require high power. Hope this helps. Debbie _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
participants (5)
-
Chuck Hards -
Greg Taylor -
Jim Gibson -
Richard Tenney -
UTAHDEB＠aol.com