Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion. So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere? I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little higher. Lakeside I'll still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit in. Outreach, I plan to hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may drive the Altima out to SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also depends what life throws my way over the next six months. -- Jay Eads
Jay: For me, it will make some difference. I will not let even $5.00 a gallon prevent me from doing what I have come to love. I will not be able to take trips like I have in the past. I use to just jump in the car and head off. Not so much of that any more. I look at GBNP and see it as a great alternative to trips like to Riverside for the telescope makers conference , Craters of the moon in Idaho was great but maybe not again. Can't make a trip to Rodeo New Mexico at the drop of a hat any more but SPOC and nearby sites, No problem count me in. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Eads " < jayleads @ gmail .com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman. xmission .com> Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 6:09:30 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion. So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere? I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little higher. Lakeside I'll still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit in. Outreach, I plan to hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may drive the Altima out to SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also depends what life throws my way over the next six months. -- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman. xmission .com http ://mailman. xmission .com/cgi-bin/mailman/ listinfo /utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http :// www . slas .us/gallery2/main. php Visit the Wiki : http :// www . utahastronomy .com
not really. I may start riding my bike for shorter trips in town to conserve gas. I can also conserve on food which helps the waistline as well as the budget. Debbie On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion.
So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere?
I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little higher. Lakeside I'll still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit in. Outreach, I plan to hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may drive the Altima out to SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also depends what life throws my way over the next six months.
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
It won't affect my astronomy pursuits. My investment in the equipment makes the gas increase almost seem trivial. Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 3/8/11, Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> wrote:
From: Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:51 PM not really. I may start riding my bike for shorter trips in town to conserve gas. I can also conserve on food which helps the waistline as well as the budget.
Debbie
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion.
So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere?
I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little higher. Lakeside I'll still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit in. Outreach, I plan to hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may drive the Altima out to SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also depends what life throws my way over the next six months.
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Joe: I'm assuming you mean your investment "so far"? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 7:12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? It won't affect my astronomy pursuits. My investment in the equipment makes the gas increase almost seem trivial. Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 3/8/11, Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> wrote:
From: Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:51 PM not really. I may start riding my bike for shorter trips in town to conserve gas. I can also conserve on food which helps the waistline as well as the budget.
Debbie
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion.
So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere?
I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little higher. Lakeside I'll still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit in. Outreach, I plan to hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may drive the Altima out to SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also depends what life throws my way over the next six months.
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I shudder to agree with you. Yes, sad to say. -- Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 3/8/11, sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> wrote:
From: sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:51 PM
Joe:
I'm assuming you mean your investment "so far"?
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>
To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 7:12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
It won't affect my astronomy pursuits. My investment in the equipment makes the gas increase almost seem trivial. Thanks, Joe
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> wrote:
From: Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com>
Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:51 PM not really. I may start riding my bike for shorter trips in town to conserve gas. I can also conserve on food which helps the waistline as well as the budget.
Debbie
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com>
wrote:
Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion.
So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere?
I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little
higher. Lakeside I'll
still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit
in. Outreach, I plan to
hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may
drive the Altima out to
SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also
depends what life throws
my way over the next six months.
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I applaud your efforts to stimulate the economy. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bauman " < josephmbauman @yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman. xmission .com> Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 10:01:02 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? I shudder to agree with you. Yes, sad to say. -- Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 3/8/11, sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> wrote:
From: sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman. xmission .com> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:51 PM
Joe:
I'm assuming you mean your investment "so far"?
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bauman " < josephmbauman @yahoo.com>
To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman. xmission .com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 7:12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
It won't affect my astronomy pursuits. My investment in the equipment makes the gas increase almost seem trivial. Thanks, Joe
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Debbie < astrodeb @ beyondbb .com> wrote:
From: Debbie < astrodeb @ beyondbb .com>
Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman. xmission .com>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:51 PM not really. I may start riding my bike for shorter trips in town to conserve gas. I can also conserve on food which helps the waistline as well as the budget.
Debbie
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jay Eads < jayleads @ gmail .com>
wrote:
Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion.
So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere?
I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little
higher. Lakeside I'll
still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit
in. Outreach, I plan to
hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may
drive the Altima out to
SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also
depends what life throws
my way over the next six months.
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman. xmission .com
http ://mailman. xmission .com/cgi-bin/mailman/ listinfo /utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http :// www . slas .us/gallery2/main. php Visit the Wiki : http :// www . utahastronomy .com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman. xmission .com
http ://mailman. xmission .com/cgi-bin/mailman/ listinfo /utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http :// www . slas .us/gallery2/main. php Visit the Wiki : http :// www . utahastronomy .com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman. xmission .com
http ://mailman. xmission .com/cgi-bin/mailman/ listinfo /utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http :// www . slas .us/gallery2/main. php Visit the Wiki : http :// www . utahastronomy .com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman. xmission .com http ://mailman. xmission .com/cgi-bin/mailman/ listinfo /utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http :// www . slas .us/gallery2/main. php Visit the Wiki : http :// www . utahastronomy .com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman. xmission .com http ://mailman. xmission .com/cgi-bin/mailman/ listinfo /utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http :// www . slas .us/gallery2/main. php Visit the Wiki : http :// www . utahastronomy .com
Short answer for me for trips to Harmons and Wheeler Farm is no. Now to the long answer (but first excuse me while I climb atop my soap box...) Let's start with a bit of math. It's 40 miles from my house to Wheeler Farm, so 80 round trip. My truck, when I keep the speed down gets 26 MPG, but for this example I'll round that to 30. With fuel $3.00 per gallon the round trip is going to cost me 80/30*3 = $8.01 for fuel. Bump that up to $4.00 per gallon and the total is $10.68. And moving up to $5.00 per gallon $13.35. I'm guessing that for many the trip in the opposite direction from SLC to SPOC is going to be about the same. Somehow an extra $5 once or twice a month just doesn't impress me. Especially considering how much we spend at Denny's afterwards each time. LOL! But this thread got me thinking of the times I've lived and visited overseas. And that got me poking around the web where I came across a web site asking why American complain so much about fuel prices. Judging from the comments a lot of foreigners think of us as a bunch of crybabies. So I did a bit of digging and came up with the following current costs of regular gasoline in various countries converted to US dollars per US gallon: Belgium 7.84 Brazil 5.79 Finland 7.80 Germany 7.46 Greece 7.91 Hong Kong 7.80 Hungary 5.00 Iceland 7.00 Ireland 7.42 Italy 6.97 Japan 6.69 Luxembourg 6.32 Netherlands 9.01 Norway 8.74 Portugal 7.91 Spain 7.12 Sweden 7.19 Granted, a lot of the extra is taxes but still, for the average driver filling their tank it's still a lot of money. And, just as an aside, having lived in Germany and not remembering ever coming across a pothole on the autobahn I'm thinking they know how to spend their tax dollars to build roads well. But that's another story. Of course there are other places where fuel is cheaper if you care to live in: Iran 2.48 Libya 0.64 And then I looked at fuel efficiency. Some of the aforementioned posters commented on our penchant to drive gas guzzling behemoths so I checked on that and came across a number of graphs comparing various countries' average fuel consumption measured in Liters consumed per 100 kilometers driven. France, Germany, Italy and the UK were in the 7 to 8 range with Japan a bit higher. But guess who came out on top with the highest consumption rate on the planet? Yeah, us at 12. And then one other item. I think most of us on this list know enough physics to know that it takes increased energy to move a given mass at increased velocities. So I looked into that and saw that most cars sold in the US get the best fuel economy when driven in the 50 to 60 MPH range with the efficiency going down considerably and rapidly after that. I try to keep my speed down to 55 most days but even on those times I do the legal limit I'm always being passed by huge vehicles going way over the limit. And, no doubt those drivers are amongst those complaining the loudest about the cost of driving. patrick p.s. I took a friend up flying yesterday. When I landed the cost of aviation gasoline was $6.60 per gallon (another reason you don't hear me complaining about the cost of car gas).
Good points, Patrick. But something to remember is that if you go from one European capital to another, it may not be much of a drive. But to go to southern Utah and back could be farther. Still, I entirely agree with you. It's not worth crying about the increased gas prices when we spend a lot on astronomy. Best wishes, Joe --- On Wed, 3/9/11, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 12:51 AM Short answer for me for trips to Harmons and Wheeler Farm is no.
Now to the long answer (but first excuse me while I climb atop my soap box...)
Let's start with a bit of math. It's 40 miles from my house to Wheeler Farm, so 80 round trip. My truck, when I keep the speed down gets 26 MPG, but for this example I'll round that to 30.
With fuel $3.00 per gallon the round trip is going to cost me 80/30*3 = $8.01 for fuel. Bump that up to $4.00 per gallon and the total is $10.68. And moving up to $5.00 per gallon $13.35.
I'm guessing that for many the trip in the opposite direction from SLC to SPOC is going to be about the same.
Somehow an extra $5 once or twice a month just doesn't impress me. Especially considering how much we spend at Denny's afterwards each time. LOL!
But this thread got me thinking of the times I've lived and visited overseas. And that got me poking around the web where I came across a web site asking why American complain so much about fuel prices. Judging from the comments a lot of foreigners think of us as a bunch of crybabies.
So I did a bit of digging and came up with the following current costs of regular gasoline in various countries converted to US dollars per US gallon:
Belgium 7.84 Brazil 5.79 Finland 7.80 Germany 7.46 Greece 7.91 Hong Kong 7.80 Hungary 5.00 Iceland 7.00 Ireland 7.42 Italy 6.97 Japan 6.69 Luxembourg 6.32 Netherlands 9.01 Norway 8.74 Portugal 7.91 Spain 7.12 Sweden 7.19
Granted, a lot of the extra is taxes but still, for the average driver filling their tank it's still a lot of money.
And, just as an aside, having lived in Germany and not remembering ever coming across a pothole on the autobahn I'm thinking they know how to spend their tax dollars to build roads well. But that's another story.
Of course there are other places where fuel is cheaper if you care to live in:
Iran 2.48 Libya 0.64
And then I looked at fuel efficiency. Some of the aforementioned posters commented on our penchant to drive gas guzzling behemoths so I checked on that and came across a number of graphs comparing various countries' average fuel consumption measured in Liters consumed per 100 kilometers driven. France, Germany, Italy and the UK were in the 7 to 8 range with Japan a bit higher. But guess who came out on top with the highest consumption rate on the planet? Yeah, us at 12.
And then one other item. I think most of us on this list know enough physics to know that it takes increased energy to move a given mass at increased velocities. So I looked into that and saw that most cars sold in the US get the best fuel economy when driven in the 50 to 60 MPH range with the efficiency going down considerably and rapidly after that.
I try to keep my speed down to 55 most days but even on those times I do the legal limit I'm always being passed by huge vehicles going way over the limit. And, no doubt those drivers are amongst those complaining the loudest about the cost of driving.
patrick
p.s. I took a friend up flying yesterday. When I landed the cost of aviation gasoline was $6.60 per gallon (another reason you don't hear me complaining about the cost of car gas). _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Some comparisons for me and how the increase cost impacts. Cost for my SUV vs my 2007 NIssan Altima. SUV at 19mpg and Altima at 28mpg since like Patrick I drive slow but mpg can vary from 15mpg to 20 mpg for the SUV to 27mpg to 30mpg for the Altima which is more consistent. Location 1 Rush Valley Pit n Pole: Car Cost as of Jan. Cost as of $5.00 a gallon SUV $12.80 round trip $23.68 Altima $8.67 $16.07 Location 2 Rush Valley Elevated/SPOC SUV $19.33 $35.79 Altima $13.12 $24.29 Location 3 Lakeside SUV $31.26 $57.90 Altima $21.21 $39.29 Location 4 Wolf Creek SUV $30.38 $56.25 Altima $18.69 $33.33 Lakeside is more for me because I tend to drive faster going out there Location 5 Great Basin SUV $65.94 $122.11 Altima $44.74 $82.26 I know gas is not near $5.00 a gallon and it is the worse case scenario but as reports in January were calling for $4.00 a gallon they are now mentioning $5.00 a gallon in the U.S. so I took the worse case scenario. When I add that to the increase cost of driving back and forth to work the bottom line is that in my case, gas will impact my budget and I will have to make adjustments. For me it will mean the farther a field I go, I may have to load up the Altima instead of the Pathfinder. Except for Wolf Creek. There I'll take the Pathfinder and a tent and stay over for two nights to maximize my time. Though not complaining, Europe has one advantage over us here in Utah, public transportation is far more effective. Tracks or the Commuter Train work if your on the I-15 corridor but not if you work off of it by some distance. So, if your operating on a budget I do think it will mean an adjustment in some way to what one does. You'll have to adjust in one area or another, especially if you are commuting to work and both spouses work and commute. It won't mean I won't observe. Just means I may adjust which car I'm taking to some locations. For outreach, it means the same. I tend to attend one outreach a month and I'll keep that up. Then again my gas budget went up this year as I had both my teens become drivers. I'm not trying to complain, just pointing out that this will impact budgets for many working people/families. On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 1:49 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Good points, Patrick. But something to remember is that if you go from one European capital to another, it may not be much of a drive. But to go to southern Utah and back could be farther. Still, I entirely agree with you. It's not worth crying about the increased gas prices when we spend a lot on astronomy. Best wishes, Joe
--- On Wed, 3/9/11, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 12:51 AM Short answer for me for trips to Harmons and Wheeler Farm is no.
Now to the long answer (but first excuse me while I climb atop my soap box...)
Let's start with a bit of math. It's 40 miles from my house to Wheeler Farm, so 80 round trip. My truck, when I keep the speed down gets 26 MPG, but for this example I'll round that to 30.
With fuel $3.00 per gallon the round trip is going to cost me 80/30*3 = $8.01 for fuel. Bump that up to $4.00 per gallon and the total is $10.68. And moving up to $5.00 per gallon $13.35.
I'm guessing that for many the trip in the opposite direction from SLC to SPOC is going to be about the same.
Somehow an extra $5 once or twice a month just doesn't impress me. Especially considering how much we spend at Denny's afterwards each time. LOL!
But this thread got me thinking of the times I've lived and visited overseas. And that got me poking around the web where I came across a web site asking why American complain so much about fuel prices. Judging from the comments a lot of foreigners think of us as a bunch of crybabies.
So I did a bit of digging and came up with the following current costs of regular gasoline in various countries converted to US dollars per US gallon:
Belgium 7.84 Brazil 5.79 Finland 7.80 Germany 7.46 Greece 7.91 Hong Kong 7.80 Hungary 5.00 Iceland 7.00 Ireland 7.42 Italy 6.97 Japan 6.69 Luxembourg 6.32 Netherlands 9.01 Norway 8.74 Portugal 7.91 Spain 7.12 Sweden 7.19
Granted, a lot of the extra is taxes but still, for the average driver filling their tank it's still a lot of money.
And, just as an aside, having lived in Germany and not remembering ever coming across a pothole on the autobahn I'm thinking they know how to spend their tax dollars to build roads well. But that's another story.
Of course there are other places where fuel is cheaper if you care to live in:
Iran 2.48 Libya 0.64
And then I looked at fuel efficiency. Some of the aforementioned posters commented on our penchant to drive gas guzzling behemoths so I checked on that and came across a number of graphs comparing various countries' average fuel consumption measured in Liters consumed per 100 kilometers driven. France, Germany, Italy and the UK were in the 7 to 8 range with Japan a bit higher. But guess who came out on top with the highest consumption rate on the planet? Yeah, us at 12.
And then one other item. I think most of us on this list know enough physics to know that it takes increased energy to move a given mass at increased velocities. So I looked into that and saw that most cars sold in the US get the best fuel economy when driven in the 50 to 60 MPH range with the efficiency going down considerably and rapidly after that.
I try to keep my speed down to 55 most days but even on those times I do the legal limit I'm always being passed by huge vehicles going way over the limit. And, no doubt those drivers are amongst those complaining the loudest about the cost of driving.
patrick
p.s. I took a friend up flying yesterday. When I landed the cost of aviation gasoline was $6.60 per gallon (another reason you don't hear me complaining about the cost of car gas). _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
-- Jay Eads
Speculation by the big Wall Street firms is often the main driver of oil prices. When oil was $145 (July 2008) JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs were the biggest players. JPMorgan's position alone was $300 Billion in oil futures while the entire oil industry had only a $30 billion position. Goldman Sachs convinced Flying J into talking a large long position when oil prices were high in 2008. When the price collapsed to $36 (December 2008), Flying J went bankrupt.
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective. When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile. I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation. Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership. Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle. Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low. DT
Yes, and when he bought his Mercedes, Truman was in office. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2011 6:03:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective. When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile. I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation. Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership. Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle. Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Actually Nixon was president. But my oldest parachute dates back to Eisenhower. :) patrick On 09 Mar 2011, at 19:05, sfisher01@comcast.net wrote:
Yes, and when he bought his Mercedes, Truman was in office.
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2011 6:03:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective.
When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile.
I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation.
Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership.
Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle.
Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low.
DT
Ok, this is going to expose me as the true obsessive-compulsive numbers nut that I am, but I actually have kept track of every cent I've spent on my truck since I drove it off the Wagstaff Toyota lot back in 1995. This includes purchase price, taxes, yearly registration fees, property taxes, fuel, maintenance (including the occasional turn signal light bulb) and even cleaning. As of 31 December 2010 I had put 275,946 miles on it and had spent a total of $47,163.94 which works out to a touch over 17 cents per mile. Looking at just 2010 the cost was 25.25 cents per 2010 mile. Not a bad investment and, considering it's age, not a terribly expensive vehicle to drive to star parties. 'Course it's got a ways to go before catching up with my first Toyota that had over 400,000 on the odometer at trade in time. Clear skies, patrick On 09 Mar 2011, at 18:03, daniel turner wrote:
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective.
When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile.
I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation.
Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership.
Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle.
Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low.
DT
Your not alone Patrick. I keep little notebooks that track miles, gallons purchased, mpg, and the date of the fill up or of any repair. Something I learned from my Dad. Sent from my iPod On Mar 9, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Ok, this is going to expose me as the true obsessive-compulsive numbers nut that I am, but I actually have kept track of every cent I've spent on my truck since I drove it off the Wagstaff Toyota lot back in 1995. This includes purchase price, taxes, yearly registration fees, property taxes, fuel, maintenance (including the occasional turn signal light bulb) and even cleaning.
As of 31 December 2010 I had put 275,946 miles on it and had spent a total of $47,163.94 which works out to a touch over 17 cents per mile. Looking at just 2010 the cost was 25.25 cents per 2010 mile.
Not a bad investment and, considering it's age, not a terribly expensive vehicle to drive to star parties.
'Course it's got a ways to go before catching up with my first Toyota that had over 400,000 on the odometer at trade in time.
Clear skies,
patrick
On 09 Mar 2011, at 18:03, daniel turner wrote:
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective.
When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile.
I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation.
Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership.
Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle.
Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Hi list, After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on. As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>). One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot. +++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :) But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US. So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++ Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad. patrick On 09 Mar 2011, at 23:21, Jay Eads wrote:
Your not alone Patrick. I keep little notebooks that track miles, gallons purchased, mpg, and the date of the fill up or of any repair. Something I learned from my Dad.
Sent from my iPod
On Mar 9, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Ok, this is going to expose me as the true obsessive-compulsive numbers nut that I am, but I actually have kept track of every cent I've spent on my truck since I drove it off the Wagstaff Toyota lot back in 1995. This includes purchase price, taxes, yearly registration fees, property taxes, fuel, maintenance (including the occasional turn signal light bulb) and even cleaning.
As of 31 December 2010 I had put 275,946 miles on it and had spent a total of $47,163.94 which works out to a touch over 17 cents per mile. Looking at just 2010 the cost was 25.25 cents per 2010 mile.
Not a bad investment and, considering it's age, not a terribly expensive vehicle to drive to star parties.
'Course it's got a ways to go before catching up with my first Toyota that had over 400,000 on the odometer at trade in time.
Clear skies,
patrick
On 09 Mar 2011, at 18:03, daniel turner wrote:
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective.
When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile.
I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation.
Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership.
Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle.
Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low.
DT
This fall when I went south, on Rarotonga, Cook Is. gas was (in October) $13/gal. Gas here on Maui is $4.90/gal so enjoy what you have in Utah I'll be heading to French Polynesia this summer and I suspect gas will be fairly costly there too c'est la vive Aloha Rob
The most likely impact will be how much public shows up for our Star Parties. How much public went to Wheeler last night? Seemed like a decent night for planets and double stars.
Europe does have an extensive mass transit system so you can do well without a car. Hi list,
After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on.
As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>).
One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot.
+++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :)
But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US.
So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++
Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad.
patrick
On 09 Mar 2011, at 23:21, Jay Eads wrote:
Your not alone Patrick. I keep little notebooks that track miles, gallons purchased, mpg, and the date of the fill up or of any repair. Something I learned from my Dad.
Sent from my iPod
On Mar 9, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Ok, this is going to expose me as the true obsessive-compulsive numbers nut that I am, but I actually have kept track of every cent I've spent on my truck since I drove it off the Wagstaff Toyota lot back in 1995. This includes purchase price, taxes, yearly registration fees, property taxes, fuel, maintenance (including the occasional turn signal light bulb) and even cleaning.
As of 31 December 2010 I had put 275,946 miles on it and had spent a total of $47,163.94 which works out to a touch over 17 cents per mile. Looking at just 2010 the cost was 25.25 cents per 2010 mile.
Not a bad investment and, considering it's age, not a terribly expensive vehicle to drive to star parties.
'Course it's got a ways to go before catching up with my first Toyota that had over 400,000 on the odometer at trade in time.
Clear skies,
patrick
On 09 Mar 2011, at 18:03, daniel turner wrote:
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective.
When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile.
I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation.
Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership.
Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle.
Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Europeans and others aren't paying any more for a barrel of oil than we are. And assuming that refining costs and distribution are probably about the same, the differences in cost are mostly due to higher taxes. You can verify this at numerous sites on the web. My attendance at SLAS events changed when I moved to Sanpete six years ago. Gas prices and time are the factors, as you would suspect. A trip to downtown SLC is 100 miles and about one hour and 45 minutes one way. Round trip cost just in gas is now nearly $40. At $0.50/mile to operate an average vehicle, actual cost is $100. So, I'm afraid I'll be seeing even less of all of my friends "up north" (all of you included). That said, I'll be thinking of you all when I have to drag my scope to my dark site, two miles out of town. Here's a shot of the Milky Way taken from that site: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3769. ;-) Kim _____ From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:59 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark sitevisits or your attendance at outreach events?
The most likely impact will be how much public shows up for our Star Parties. How much public went to Wheeler last night? Seemed like a decent night for planets and double stars.
Europe does have an extensive mass transit system so you can do well without a car. Hi list,
After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on.
As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>).
One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot.
+++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :)
But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US.
So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++
Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad.
patrick
On 09 Mar 2011, at 23:21, Jay Eads wrote:
Your not alone Patrick. I keep little notebooks that track miles, gallons purchased, mpg, and the date of the fill up or of any repair. Something I learned from my Dad.
Sent from my iPod
On Mar 9, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Ok, this is going to expose me as the true obsessive-compulsive numbers nut that I am, but I actually have kept track of every cent I've spent on my truck since I drove it off the Wagstaff Toyota lot back in 1995. This includes purchase price, taxes, yearly registration fees, property taxes, fuel, maintenance (including the occasional turn signal light bulb) and even cleaning.
As of 31 December 2010 I had put 275,946 miles on it and had spent a total of $47,163.94 which works out to a touch over 17 cents per mile. Looking at just 2010 the cost was 25.25 cents per 2010 mile.
Not a bad investment and, considering it's age, not a terribly expensive vehicle to drive to star parties.
'Course it's got a ways to go before catching up with my first Toyota that had over 400,000 on the odometer at trade in time.
Clear skies,
patrick
On 09 Mar 2011, at 18:03, daniel turner wrote:
You need to put the cost of fuel into perspective.
When the gas prices spiced back in 2008 I took the price I paid for the vehicle and subtracted the current resale price and divided by the miles driven so far and came up with a cost of about 20 cents a mile.
I had paid cash so there was no interest, but I didn't consider tax, registration and mantenance costs, just the depreciation.
Currently gas is costing me about 20 cents a mile so the price of fuel is less than half the total cost of ownership.
Next time I will buy a used car to cut down on the depreciation cost. That's where the big cost is in owning a vehicle.
Or you could do like Patrick does. His truck was bought new when Reagan was still president. His depreciation cost per mile should be realy low.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3591 - Release Date: 04/22/11 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3591 - Release Date: 04/22/11
The prices in Europe are from extremely high taxes, not higher cost for oil or refining. If you've ever been to Europe things are also very close, France is just a few hours from Central Germany for example and a LONG road trip in Europe is just a couple of hours. I've been on the famous German Autobahns, if you can get up to high speed and there are not any of the numerous accidents bringing traffic to a standstill, which happens a lot, you don't go very long before you have to get off, things are close. That is not the reality in much of the U.S., certainly not for us here in Utah, which is why we have traditionally taxed fuel much more moderately then Europeans have. I expect we will see some change in behavior from club members and visitors if gas continues to climb as projected, but not a dramatic change. After all how many of us buy all kind of telescope stuff without too much agonizing. Most of us will just absorb the cost. We didn't get in this hobby because had an aversion to spending money. Bob -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:03 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? Hi list, After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on. As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>). One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot. +++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :) But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US. So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++ Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad. patrick
Right, Americans are much more dependent on the automobile and will suffer more when oil becomes scarce, it seems unlikely gas will get cheaper in the future as the number of autos in the world increase in China and India. There are members of SLAS that can't afford a car let alone the gas.
I will avoid unneeded trips, its the miles not the gas, gas is a minor expense in automobile use. I choose to use my money on more useful things like upgrading plumbing fixtures lately. The prices in Europe are from extremely high taxes, not higher cost for
oil or refining. If you've ever been to Europe things are also very close, France is just a few hours from Central Germany for example and a LONG road trip in Europe is just a couple of hours. I've been on the famous German Autobahns, if you can get up to high speed and there are not any of the numerous accidents bringing traffic to a standstill, which happens a lot, you don't go very long before you have to get off, things are close. That is not the reality in much of the U.S., certainly not for us here in Utah, which is why we have traditionally taxed fuel much more moderately then Europeans have.
I expect we will see some change in behavior from club members and visitors if gas continues to climb as projected, but not a dramatic change. After all how many of us buy all kind of telescope stuff without too much agonizing. Most of us will just absorb the cost. We didn't get in this hobby because had an aversion to spending money.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:03 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
Hi list,
After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on.
As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>).
One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot.
+++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :)
But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US.
So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++
Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad.
patrick
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Bob, I agree with you. I asked the question initially because I was curious if anyone thought the impact would change any driving habits in terms of observing. My wife said it best. "This is your hobby, you'll cut something else out so you can still go." Yep, she's right. I know gas won't stop me, the weather is right now, but I'll adjust in other areas. Also, I have lived in Europe and my wife and I have 3 couples from Denmark, England/Britain and France that are close friends. Petrol prices are often reflected by taxes that are collected to pay for other transportation needs. It also encourages people not to own a car but to use public transportation, even for vacations (plane, train etc.). Our friends in Denmark don't own a car, don't feel the need. Our friends in England own two cars but mainly take public transportation to work. Our friends in France own one car and use it a lot more as they are in the country. One thing not mentioned is the fact that in Europe (western Europe) you also have high costs to register your car. The registration fee for a car can be up to really expensive and is based on a high % of the cars value. Imagine owning a car and having to pay $8000.00 a year just to register it (the tax on a car valued at $20,000 at a 40% tax rate). In addition, many roads are toll roads and so you have to pay to drive on them. Don't drive in Italy or in France if you don't know how to avoid the toll roads and in many cases, just have plenty of change anyway. Bottom line, driving in Europe is more expensive than here. I just wish we had their public transportation. In terms of visitors to Star Parties I actually think we just may see an increase. Why? While if your in the Tooele area, SPOC is a lot closer than going into SLC and Wheeler is right in the middle of a major metro area and they are both free to the public. When money gets tight, families often look to do things that are free and fun. Sounds like a Star Party evening may be in the plans for some families as the weather improves (will it?). On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Robert Taylor <robtaylorslc@gmail.com>wrote:
The prices in Europe are from extremely high taxes, not higher cost for oil or refining. If you've ever been to Europe things are also very close, France is just a few hours from Central Germany for example and a LONG road trip in Europe is just a couple of hours. I've been on the famous German Autobahns, if you can get up to high speed and there are not any of the numerous accidents bringing traffic to a standstill, which happens a lot, you don't go very long before you have to get off, things are close. That is not the reality in much of the U.S., certainly not for us here in Utah, which is why we have traditionally taxed fuel much more moderately then Europeans have.
I expect we will see some change in behavior from club members and visitors if gas continues to climb as projected, but not a dramatic change. After all how many of us buy all kind of telescope stuff without too much agonizing. Most of us will just absorb the cost. We didn't get in this hobby because had an aversion to spending money.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:03 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
Hi list,
After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on.
As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>).
One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot.
+++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :)
But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US.
So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++
Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad.
patrick
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads
Don't forget the value added tax, in Denmark taxes double the price of a car. My cousin drives a Morgan and that will be his car for most of his life.
Bob,
I agree with you. I asked the question initially because I was curious if anyone thought the impact would change any driving habits in terms of observing. My wife said it best. "This is your hobby, you'll cut something else out so you can still go." Yep, she's right. I know gas won't stop me, the weather is right now, but I'll adjust in other areas.
Also, I have lived in Europe and my wife and I have 3 couples from Denmark, England/Britain and France that are close friends. Petrol prices are often reflected by taxes that are collected to pay for other transportation needs. It also encourages people not to own a car but to use public transportation, even for vacations (plane, train etc.). Our friends in Denmark don't own a car, don't feel the need. Our friends in England own two cars but mainly take public transportation to work. Our friends in France own one car and use it a lot more as they are in the country. One thing not mentioned is the fact that in Europe (western Europe) you also have high costs to register your car. The registration fee for a car can be up to really expensive and is based on a high % of the cars value. Imagine owning a car and having to pay $8000.00 a year just to register it (the tax on a car valued at $20,000 at a 40% tax rate). In addition, many roads are toll roads and so you have to pay to drive on them. Don't drive in Italy or in France if you don't know how to avoid the toll roads and in many cases, just have plenty of change anyway. Bottom line, driving in Europe is more expensive than here. I just wish we had their public transportation.
In terms of visitors to Star Parties I actually think we just may see an increase. Why? While if your in the Tooele area, SPOC is a lot closer than going into SLC and Wheeler is right in the middle of a major metro area and they are both free to the public. When money gets tight, families often look to do things that are free and fun. Sounds like a Star Party evening may be in the plans for some families as the weather improves (will it?).
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Robert Taylor <robtaylorslc@gmail.com>wrote:
The prices in Europe are from extremely high taxes, not higher cost for oil or refining. If you've ever been to Europe things are also very close, France is just a few hours from Central Germany for example and a LONG road trip in Europe is just a couple of hours. I've been on the famous German Autobahns, if you can get up to high speed and there are not any of the numerous accidents bringing traffic to a standstill, which happens a lot, you don't go very long before you have to get off, things are close. That is not the reality in much of the U.S., certainly not for us here in Utah, which is why we have traditionally taxed fuel much more moderately then Europeans have.
I expect we will see some change in behavior from club members and visitors if gas continues to climb as projected, but not a dramatic change. After all how many of us buy all kind of telescope stuff without too much agonizing. Most of us will just absorb the cost. We didn't get in this hobby because had an aversion to spending money.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:03 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
Hi list,
After this thread wound down I joined a similar thread on one of the international pro-am astronomy lists I'm on.
As I suspected the folks overseas (France $8, Italy $9) don't have a lot of sympathy for our "high" prices here in the US (though I found it refreshing that they put their feelings very diplomatically <g>).
One aspect I had not considered was the lower wages in many of those countries compounding the effects of their truly high fuel prices. I thought that was expressed well in this I received yesterday that may help some of us feel better (and maybe a bit guilty) about our lot.
+++++ I remember that numerous conversations with my friends about gas prices often ended with "Oh those Americans" :)
But let's just stay on the statistical side. I live where a gallon of petrol costs about $7.24 per gallon. In 2005 a gallon was about $4 and that price was constant from late 90's until 2006, when it started to rise (peaked in 2008). But you must look at this in a different light. Average monthly salary is about $1000. Now compare that to the average salary in the US.
So if you want go get from place where I live to seaside (which has became quite popular in the last years) by highway and back (including all tolls), that will set you back about 1/3 of your monthly salary. If you ask me, that's a lot for a 800km trip. +++++
Suddenly the cost of my trip from Stansbury to Wheeler this evening didn't seem so bad.
patrick
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
We went through a few years ago when oil briefly hit $140 per barrel. Same questions were asked and there was little noticeable difference in attendance. A few people mentioned gas prices as reasons for not going to a start party (on cloudy nights) but when the weather was good we saw as many people as we normal. I think this will be the same. Bob -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jay Eads Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:06 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? Bob, I agree with you. I asked the question initially because I was curious if anyone thought the impact would change any driving habits in terms of observing. My wife said it best. "This is your hobby, you'll cut something else out so you can still go." Yep, she's right. I know gas won't stop me, the weather is right now, but I'll adjust in other areas. Also, I have lived in Europe and my wife and I have 3 couples from Denmark, England/Britain and France that are close friends. Petrol prices are often reflected by taxes that are collected to pay for other transportation needs. It also encourages people not to own a car but to use public transportation, even for vacations (plane, train etc.). Our friends in Denmark don't own a car, don't feel the need. Our friends in England own two cars but mainly take public transportation to work. Our friends in France own one car and use it a lot more as they are in the country. One thing not mentioned is the fact that in Europe (western Europe) you also have high costs to register your car. The registration fee for a car can be up to really expensive and is based on a high % of the cars value. Imagine owning a car and having to pay $8000.00 a year just to register it (the tax on a car valued at $20,000 at a 40% tax rate). In addition, many roads are toll roads and so you have to pay to drive on them. Don't drive in Italy or in France if you don't know how to avoid the toll roads and in many cases, just have plenty of change anyway. Bottom line, driving in Europe is more expensive than here. I just wish we had their public transportation. In terms of visitors to Star Parties I actually think we just may see an increase. Why? While if your in the Tooele area, SPOC is a lot closer than going into SLC and Wheeler is right in the middle of a major metro area and they are both free to the public. When money gets tight, families often look to do things that are free and fun. Sounds like a Star Party evening may be in the plans for some families as the weather improves (will it?).
Perhaps we would see increases in public attendance with lower prices, we have had much bigger crowds at SPOC in years past well before the Grim. Hundreds were not that unusual. That includes SLAS members and public, star party support remains but has waned a bit. Gas prices are not my reason for not wishing to drive out on ify nights, clouds are.
We went through a few years ago when oil briefly hit $140 per barrel.
Same questions were asked and there was little noticeable difference in attendance. A few people mentioned gas prices as reasons for not going to a start party (on cloudy nights) but when the weather was good we saw as many people as we normal. I think this will be the same.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jay Eads Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:06 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
Bob,
I agree with you. I asked the question initially because I was curious if anyone thought the impact would change any driving habits in terms of observing. My wife said it best. "This is your hobby, you'll cut something else out so you can still go." Yep, she's right. I know gas won't stop me, the weather is right now, but I'll adjust in other areas.
Also, I have lived in Europe and my wife and I have 3 couples from Denmark, England/Britain and France that are close friends. Petrol prices are often reflected by taxes that are collected to pay for other transportation needs. It also encourages people not to own a car but to use public transportation, even for vacations (plane, train etc.). Our friends in Denmark don't own a car, don't feel the need. Our friends in England own two cars but mainly take public transportation to work. Our friends in France own one car and use it a lot more as they are in the country. One thing not mentioned is the fact that in Europe (western Europe) you also have high costs to register your car. The registration fee for a car can be up to really expensive and is based on a high % of the cars value. Imagine owning a car and having to pay $8000.00 a year just to register it (the tax on a car valued at $20,000 at a 40% tax rate). In addition, many roads are toll roads and so you have to pay to drive on them. Don't drive in Italy or in France if you don't know how to avoid the toll roads and in many cases, just have plenty of change anyway. Bottom line, driving in Europe is more expensive than here. I just wish we had their public transportation.
In terms of visitors to Star Parties I actually think we just may see an increase. Why? While if your in the Tooele area, SPOC is a lot closer than going into SLC and Wheeler is right in the middle of a major metro area and they are both free to the public. When money gets tight, families often look to do things that are free and fun. Sounds like a Star Party evening may be in the plans for some families as the weather improves (will it?).
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Iffy on clouds I understand. I guess I can make this offer to anyone who lives in the general area of Herriman, Riverton, South Jordan. If I'm going to a star party and someone wants a ride they are welcome to ride with me. Fitting two scopes isn't an issue. I usually stay until it is over. No cost for gas cause I'm going there anyway. However I don't attend star parties during the new moon period as I'm out at a darker site observing. Jay Sent from my iPad On Apr 23, 2011, at 1:21 PM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Perhaps we would see increases in public attendance with lower prices, we have had much bigger crowds at SPOC in years past well before the Grim. Hundreds were not that unusual. That includes SLAS members and public, star party support remains but has waned a bit. Gas prices are not my reason for not wishing to drive out on ify nights, clouds are.
We went through a few years ago when oil briefly hit $140 per barrel.
Same questions were asked and there was little noticeable difference in attendance. A few people mentioned gas prices as reasons for not going to a start party (on cloudy nights) but when the weather was good we saw as many people as we normal. I think this will be the same.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jay Eads Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:06 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events?
Bob,
I agree with you. I asked the question initially because I was curious if anyone thought the impact would change any driving habits in terms of observing. My wife said it best. "This is your hobby, you'll cut something else out so you can still go." Yep, she's right. I know gas won't stop me, the weather is right now, but I'll adjust in other areas.
Also, I have lived in Europe and my wife and I have 3 couples from Denmark, England/Britain and France that are close friends. Petrol prices are often reflected by taxes that are collected to pay for other transportation needs. It also encourages people not to own a car but to use public transportation, even for vacations (plane, train etc.). Our friends in Denmark don't own a car, don't feel the need. Our friends in England own two cars but mainly take public transportation to work. Our friends in France own one car and use it a lot more as they are in the country. One thing not mentioned is the fact that in Europe (western Europe) you also have high costs to register your car. The registration fee for a car can be up to really expensive and is based on a high % of the cars value. Imagine owning a car and having to pay $8000.00 a year just to register it (the tax on a car valued at $20,000 at a 40% tax rate). In addition, many roads are toll roads and so you have to pay to drive on them. Don't drive in Italy or in France if you don't know how to avoid the toll roads and in many cases, just have plenty of change anyway. Bottom line, driving in Europe is more expensive than here. I just wish we had their public transportation.
In terms of visitors to Star Parties I actually think we just may see an increase. Why? While if your in the Tooele area, SPOC is a lot closer than going into SLC and Wheeler is right in the middle of a major metro area and they are both free to the public. When money gets tight, families often look to do things that are free and fun. Sounds like a Star Party evening may be in the plans for some families as the weather improves (will it?).
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
If tonight was any indication there are a number of SLASers willing to pay "high" fuel prices to come to a star party even on mostly cloudy nights. Not a lot of public (one very nice lady showed up looking for Siegfried but settled for Dave Bernson <g>) but we got quite a bit of training done. Afterwards we tried out a different restaurant for Advanced Training. The place is a small shop located a few minutes away at the south end of the Park. Nice place and very friendly service. Hoping for better weather for the swap meet and star party on the 7th, patrick
The truly obsessed will build a spreadsheet that will adjust each expense for inflation to a constant dollar value to make the comparison more of accurate. I haven't done this but I know how to and that's almost as bad. DT
No, not at all. I have two vehicles, one, a Jeep, gets 19mpg hwy, the other, a Hyundai, gets 37mpg hwy (about double the Jeep) and I can still fill it up for less than $30. I'll just drive the Hyundai more often till prices stabilize and come down again, that's all. If you stop to think about it would you not go to Bryce or Capital Reef for an extra $10 per fill-up? Eat at home a couple more times per month, turn lights off when you don't need them, oh, and inflate your tires properly taking one from our President (sorry, couldn't help it) and you've easily made that money back. Don't let your story be : I have $6,000 (or more) in astronomy gear but I won't use it because gas went up $.75 a gallon. Bob -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jay Eads Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 6:10 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Will the cost of gas change your dark site visits or your attendance at outreach events? Title says it all. Some are speculating that gas may hit $250 a barrel (OUCH!) and that $5.00 gas by Memorial Day may be a reality. I posted this question over at Cloudy Nights back in January when the warning bells were starting to go off (still think this is a ploy by the Oil Companies and Speculators to drive up profits) but I would like a more local opinion. So I ask, if gas is between $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon will it change how often you drive to a dark site to observe? I know that SPOC is a good ways out for some of us and will that gas price impact the amount of times you drive out to perform outreach there or elsewhere? I know for me I will still make several trips up to Wolf Creek this summer but what will change is that I will drive up and camp over and get in two nights of observing in. I'll still hit Rush Valley as I have a couple of new spots that I really like and are up a little higher. Lakeside I'll still hit also. I still intend to hit Great Basin at least twice but if gas goes up over $4.00 I may not get that third visit in. Outreach, I plan to hit SPOC once a month this summer so that won't change, but I may hit a Harmon's more as those locations are usually closer. So gas will and will not impact my observing at a dark sites and at outreach. What could also change is instead of driving the Pathfinder I may drive the Altima out to SPOC and to other locations. Then again, it also depends what life throws my way over the next six months. -- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (12)
-
Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
Debbie -
Don J. Colton -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Jay Eads -
Joe Bauman -
Kim Hyatt -
Patrick Wiggins -
Rob Ratkowski Photography -
Robert Taylor -
sfisher01＠comcast.net