Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification
Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the information and pointing out my pasting error. I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your salvation." I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality of scientific education in this country, when we can't counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the fringe. What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to religion and thus not refutable? And so on. Thanks for listening, and any other information. Richard Quoting utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com:
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Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on astronomy slide shows at area schools, up to the high school level.
Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in scriptural descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always politely referred those students to their religious leaders for more information, explaining that such questions are out of the realm of scientific research.
Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the "digest" format. Can you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, please don't quote the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to include only the comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in not having to pick through dozens of repeat posts.
Thanks!
Someone using the name Richard Garrard has been posting on an exMormon website, with the topic "Satan Stories in the Mormon Church." Another posting from 2000 is, "Richard Garrard, April 2000 - Proposition 22 and other LDS church political activities; their continued Orwellian changes to doctrine and history; my growing confidence in myself and unwillingness to live someone else's life, for another's approval. Also, I have found a far more valid identity as a humanist, which is fundamentally incompatible with the blind faith, conformity, irrationality, supernaturalism, inhumanity and tortured apologetics of Mormonism." I'm concerned because this forum is about astronomy, not sociology. Richard, if you are the same poster, can you tell us why you want people to comment on the Mormon view concerning astronomy? As a non-Mormon but a respectful friend to many Mormons, I think we should be careful that this discussion group isn't used as fodder for someone's agenda. Thanks, Joe --- On Mon, 12/13/10, garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> wrote:
From: garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:42 PM Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the information and pointing out my pasting error.
I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your salvation."
I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality of scientific education in this country, when we can't counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the fringe. What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to religion and thus not refutable? And so on.
Thanks for listening, and any other information.
Richard
Quoting utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com:
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on astronomy slide shows at area schools, up to the high school level.
Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in scriptural descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always politely referred those students to their religious leaders for more information, explaining that such questions are out of the realm of scientific research.
Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the "digest" format. Can you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, please don't quote the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to include only the comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in not having to pick through dozens of repeat posts.
Thanks!
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
My agenda is to convince people that they should give me their astronomy money instead of selfishly spending it on themselves. So I'm good to go, right Joe? ;o) On 12/13/10, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm concerned because this forum is about astronomy, not sociology.
May I respectfully suggest he contact the LDS church for an official position. I have read the Kolob Theorem. It's not the church position. Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 21:04:53 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Someone using the name Richard Garrard has been posting on an exMormon website, with the topic "Satan Stories in the Mormon Church." Another posting from 2000 is, "Richard Garrard, April 2000 - Proposition 22 and other LDS church political activities; their continued Orwellian changes to doctrine and history; my growing confidence in myself and unwillingness to live someone else's life, for another's approval. Also, I have found a far more valid identity as a humanist, which is fundamentally incompatible with the blind faith, conformity, irrationality, supernaturalism, inhumanity and tortured apologetics of Mormonism." I'm concerned because this forum is about astronomy, not sociology. Richard, if you are the same poster, can you tell us why you want people to comment on the Mormon view concerning astronomy? As a non-Mormon but a respectful friend to many Mormons, I think we should be careful that this discussion group isn't used as fodder for someone's agenda. Thanks, Joe --- On Mon, 12/13/10, garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> wrote:
From: garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:42 PM Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the information and pointing out my pasting error.
I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your salvation."
I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality of scientific education in this country, when we can't counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the fringe. What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to religion and thus not refutable? And so on.
Thanks for listening, and any other information.
Richard
Quoting utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com:
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on astronomy slide shows at area schools, up to the high school level.
Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in scriptural descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always politely referred those students to their religious leaders for more information, explaining that such questions are out of the realm of scientific research.
Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the "digest" format. Can you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, please don't quote the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to include only the comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in not having to pick through dozens of repeat posts.
Thanks!
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
When I was a child and I asked questions about the differences in scientific discoveries and LDS beliefs, my devout LDS mother either told me that science was wrong (like carbon dating for example) or that we didn't know how long God's day was, hence there was no conflict. This was 40ish years ago though, and I really don't know how she would reconcile today's information with her beliefs. I have to add, that as an impressionable child who firmly believed my mother knew all, I scoffed at science for most of my childhood/teen years. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Me Siegfried <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote:
May I respectfully suggest he contact the LDS church for an official position. I have read the Kolob Theorem. It's not the church position.
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message----- From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 21:04:53 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification
Someone using the name Richard Garrard has been posting on an exMormon website, with the topic "Satan Stories in the Mormon Church."
Another posting from 2000 is, "Richard Garrard, April 2000 - Proposition 22 and other LDS church political activities; their continued Orwellian changes to doctrine and history; my growing confidence in myself and unwillingness to live someone else's life, for another's approval. Also, I have found a far more valid identity as a humanist, which is fundamentally incompatible with the blind faith, conformity, irrationality, supernaturalism, inhumanity and tortured apologetics of Mormonism."
I'm concerned because this forum is about astronomy, not sociology. Richard, if you are the same poster, can you tell us why you want people to comment on the Mormon view concerning astronomy? As a non-Mormon but a respectful friend to many Mormons, I think we should be careful that this discussion group isn't used as fodder for someone's agenda.
Thanks, Joe
--- On Mon, 12/13/10, garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> wrote:
From: garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:42 PM Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the information and pointing out my pasting error.
I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your salvation."
I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality of scientific education in this country, when we can't counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the fringe. What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to religion and thus not refutable? And so on.
Thanks for listening, and any other information.
Richard
Quoting utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com:
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF@mail.gmail.com<4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp%2B_PK66xPM5pF@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on astronomy slide shows at area schools, up to the high school level.
Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in scriptural descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always politely referred those students to their religious leaders for more information, explaining that such questions are out of the realm of scientific research.
Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the "digest" format. Can you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, please don't quote the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to include only the comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in not having to pick through dozens of repeat posts.
Thanks!
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Joe, Well Put. Rodger -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 2:04 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Someone using the name Richard Garrard has been posting on an exMormon website, with the topic "Satan Stories in the Mormon Church." Another posting from 2000 is, "Richard Garrard, April 2000 - Proposition 22 and other LDS church political activities; their continued Orwellian changes to doctrine and history; my growing confidence in myself and unwillingness to live someone else's life, for another's approval. Also, I have found a far more valid identity as a humanist, which is fundamentally incompatible with the blind faith, conformity, irrationality, supernaturalism, inhumanity and tortured apologetics of Mormonism." I'm concerned because this forum is about astronomy, not sociology. Richard, if you are the same poster, can you tell us why you want people to comment on the Mormon view concerning astronomy? As a non-Mormon but a respectful friend to many Mormons, I think we should be careful that this discussion group isn't used as fodder for someone's agenda. Thanks, Joe --- On Mon, 12/13/10, garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> wrote:
From: garrard55@xmission.com <garrard55@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:42 PM Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the information and pointing out my pasting error.
I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your salvation."
I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality of scientific education in this country, when we can't counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the fringe. What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to religion and thus not refutable? And so on.
Thanks for listening, and any other information.
Richard
Quoting utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com:
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on astronomy slide shows at area schools, up to the high school level.
Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in scriptural descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always politely referred those students to their religious leaders for more information, explaining that such questions are out of the realm of scientific research.
Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the "digest" format. Can you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, please don't quote the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to include only the comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in not having to pick through dozens of repeat posts.
Thanks!
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (6)
-
Chuck Hards -
garrard55＠xmission.com -
Joe Bauman -
Julie Clyde -
Me Siegfried -
Rodger C. Fry