Telescope and Eyepiece Help
Hello all, I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece. When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects. Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic? My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added. Any help would be great. Thanks. ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
Hi Troy: For most Messier objects, you will be using low powers. The 32mm is probably too low for most, the 9mm is too high for most. I would recommend that you get some eypieces yielding magnifications in-between. 50X-100X is the range where you will be doing most of your deep-sky observing. To determine what magnification any particular eyepiece will yield with your telescope, divide the telescope's focal length (in millimeters) by the eyepiece focal length (also in millimeters). This will give you the magnification of the combination. Example: 2000mm telescope focal length, 20mm eyepiece focal length. 2000/20=100X. Also make sure your telescope is collimated (optically aligned) properly. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Is there a good website out there that will show me how to properly align my mirrors? Also, what's the opinion about zoomable eyepieces? ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Chuck Hards<chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Troy:
For most Messier objects, you will be using low powers. The 32mm is probably too low for most, the 9mm is too high for most.
I would recommend that you get some eypieces yielding magnifications in-between. 50X-100X is the range where you will be doing most of your deep-sky observing.
To determine what magnification any particular eyepiece will yield with your telescope, divide the telescope's focal length (in millimeters) by the eyepiece focal length (also in millimeters). This will give you the magnification of the combination.
Example: 2000mm telescope focal length, 20mm eyepiece focal length. 2000/20=100X.
Also make sure your telescope is collimated (optically aligned) properly.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
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Some people like zoom eyepieces. Personally, I don't, mostly due to the fact that the field of view is very small at low powers. If you bring your telescope to a star party, many people there can help you check your collimation. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a good website out there that will show me how to properly align my mirrors?
Also, what's the opinion about zoomable eyepieces?
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Chuck Hards<chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Troy:
For most Messier objects, you will be using low powers. The 32mm is probably too low for most, the 9mm is too high for most.
I would recommend that you get some eypieces yielding magnifications in-between. 50X-100X is the range where you will be doing most of your deep-sky observing.
To determine what magnification any particular eyepiece will yield with your telescope, divide the telescope's focal length (in millimeters) by the eyepiece focal length (also in millimeters). This will give you the magnification of the combination.
Example: 2000mm telescope focal length, 20mm eyepiece focal length. 2000/20=100X.
Also make sure your telescope is collimated (optically aligned) properly.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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Hi Troy and welcome. I couldn't respond to your post earlier but I have a couple of thoughts to share. Color in deep sky objects is rarely detectable in the eyepiece, although you may see some subtle pinks and/or blues in diffuse nebulae such as M8 (Lagoon Nebula) and M42 (great Orion Nebula), blue in some reflection nebulae such as the dust within M45 (Pleiades), and the blue-green of planetary nebulae such as NGC 7662 (the Blue Snowball) and NGC 6543 (the Cat's Eye Nebula). Scopes larger than your 8-inch may make it more likely to see such color, but the effect will always be difficult to see with direct visual observation. The grays that you report seeing are about all any of us see, but that's OK - it's just the nature of biology, the instruments we use, and the objects themselves. For many of us the hunt alone for "faint fuzzies" is much of the fun of the hobby. I've found that for most people, the view of many deep sky objects is underwhelming, at best. Outside of our own circle of friends and observers we rarely find anyone who can appreciate the barely detectable spiral structure of M51 or the challenge of finding a small obscure object in some remote corner of the sky. With experience and as you train your eye, you'll begin to see more detail and hints of color than you might see now. Newtonian scopes, especially, will need collimation from time to time. You might try Sky and Telescope's website for a detailed description and instructions: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/howto/diy/3306876.html. I know nothing of Zhumell products, and they may be great, but a useful magnification of 479x is all but absurd. A realistic range under most conditions might be from 20x to 30x per inch of aperture. Anything over about 350x pushes the limit of even the largest professional instruments. On rare occasions they might use greater power; the operable word here is RARE. Using the formula that Chuck gave you can calculate the range of eyepieces that you might want to acquire. Years ago I began observing with nothing more than a 7mm orthoscopic and a 32mm Plossl. Shortly after I began using my first scope (10-inch Newtonian) I also added a 1.5x Barlow. As with most of us, over the years I've tried and acquired many eyepieces; I've kept some and got rid of others. Go to SLAS star parties and try out many eyepieces, at someone else's scope or someone might be willing to loan you the use of an eyepiece for a few minutes. Soon you'll know what other eyepiece sizes and designs will best suit your needs. If you go to star parties early enough, you'll see folks collimating their Newtonian scopes and get a better idea how to do yours. You will undoubtedly receive offers of assistance, and don't be afraid to ask. Good luck as you begin your journey through the cosmos. I hope soon to meet you at a star party. Goulash, Kim
Troy: The best feature of an 8 inch telescope is it's portability. You should keep this telescope as a "grab and go" telescope that is quick to set up and easy to use. The view through telescopes starts to get significantly better at 12 inches of aperture. However the convenience feature is seriously diminished. Going up to 18 inches will give you absolutely grand views but you are starting to need a crew of people to help you just set the thing up and you need a larger vehicle to carry it around. Amateur owned telescopes tend to top out at 24 inches and the views through them are to die for, but moving and assembling them is a real bear. I suggest that you keep your 8 inch until you are proficient in using it. Then attend some star parties and look through other people's telescopes to see how the view compares. You may step up to a larger telescope and still keep the 8 inch for occasional use because of it's easy portability. DT --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Telescope and Eyepiece Help To: "Utah Astronomy" <Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:35 AM Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
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Troy,
What Chuck and Daniel say are true. You probably want some eyepieces between the 9 and 32. A 8 inch is not very big, but perhaps you should take a look at the coatings. Is the mirror clean or are coatings getting thin? Personally, the smallest dob I have owned is a 10" f 5. Erik Troy:
The best feature of an 8 inch telescope is it's portability. You should keep this telescope as a "grab and go" telescope that is quick to set up and easy to use.
The view through telescopes starts to get significantly better at 12 inches of aperture. However the convenience feature is seriously diminished. Going up to 18 inches will give you absolutely grand views but you are starting to need a crew of people to help you just set the thing up and you need a larger vehicle to carry it around. Amateur owned telescopes tend to top out at 24 inches and the views through them are to die for, but moving and assembling them is a real bear.
I suggest that you keep your 8 inch until you are proficient in using it. Then attend some star parties and look through other people's telescopes to see how the view compares. You may step up to a larger telescope and still keep the 8 inch for occasional use because of it's easy portability.
DT
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Telescope and Eyepiece Help To: "Utah Astronomy" <Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:35 AM Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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Of course you should beware a "aperture fever". I think Dan has the communicable variety.
Troy,
What Chuck and Daniel say are true. You probably want some eyepieces between the 9 and 32. A 8 inch is not very big, but perhaps you should take a look at the coatings. Is the mirror clean or are coatings getting thin? Personally, the smallest dob I have owned is a 10" f 5.
Erik
Troy:
The best feature of an 8 inch telescope is it's portability. You should keep this telescope as a "grab and go" telescope that is quick to set up and easy to use.
The view through telescopes starts to get significantly better at 12 inches of aperture. However the convenience feature is seriously diminished. Going up to 18 inches will give you absolutely grand views but you are starting to need a crew of people to help you just set the thing up and you need a larger vehicle to carry it around. Amateur owned telescopes tend to top out at 24 inches and the views through them are to die for, but moving and assembling them is a real bear.
I suggest that you keep your 8 inch until you are proficient in using it. Then attend some star parties and look through other people's telescopes to see how the view compares. You may step up to a larger telescope and still keep the 8 inch for occasional use because of it's easy portability.
DT
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Troy Davidson <clandaith@gmail.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Telescope and Eyepiece Help To: "Utah Astronomy" <Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:35 AM Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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An 8" telescope is not a small telescope. It is perfectly capable of delivering stunning views of just about all the Messier objects from reasonably dark location, given good seeing at the time. Skull Valley should be a very good site for being reasonably close to the valley. Get a couple of new eyepieces, and make sure the scope is clean as Erik suggested, and collimated. You will amazed at the views. Don't think your scope is inadequate, it's not. Once you get familiar with the sky a little more, and become more proficient at using a scope, then cast your gaze on a larger telescope- but beware, your wallet had better be up to the task. Big scopes don't come cheap.
The retired SLAS Mickey Mouse telescope is a better example of a small scope.
An 8" telescope is not a small telescope. It is perfectly capable of
delivering stunning views of just about all the Messier objects from reasonably dark location, given good seeing at the time. Skull Valley should be a very good site for being reasonably close to the valley.
Get a couple of new eyepieces, and make sure the scope is clean as Erik suggested, and collimated. You will amazed at the views. Don't think your scope is inadequate, it's not. Once you get familiar with the sky a little more, and become more proficient at using a scope, then cast your gaze on a larger telescope- but beware, your wallet had better be up to the task. Big scopes don't come cheap. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
You will likely not see color in any deep sky objects. Galaxies will all pretty much just look like faint smudges with that aperture. But you should be able to see some nebulae, and get some nice views of globular clusters. Don't plan on using 479x very often; a barlow with the 9mm will give you 267x which is as high as you will be able to go most of the time. It will also give you 75x with the 32mm. I would get some other eyepieces though; probably something between 12 and 16 mm, and if you don't get a barlow something lower than the 9. Welcome to the hobby! Craig -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Troy Davidson Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:35 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Telescope and Eyepiece Help Hello all, I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece. When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects. Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic? My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added. Any help would be great. Thanks. ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I have seen color in the trifid with my 6" refractor.
You will likely not see color in any deep sky objects. Galaxies will all
pretty much just look like faint smudges with that aperture. But you should be able to see some nebulae, and get some nice views of globular clusters. Don't plan on using 479x very often; a barlow with the 9mm will give you 267x which is as high as you will be able to go most of the time. It will also give you 75x with the 32mm. I would get some other eyepieces though; probably something between 12 and 16 mm, and if you don't get a barlow something lower than the 9.
Welcome to the hobby!
Craig
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Troy Davidson Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:35 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Telescope and Eyepiece Help
Hello all,
I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece.
When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of color in these objects.
Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic?
My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html, I should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with a barlow or other magnifier added.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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Of course your right, bright objects have a purple halo (minus violet filters help) objects like trifid are not bright enough to elicit that response. Ken Meyer calls it chromatic enhancement, I saw pink and light blue, it was perhaps my most memorable eyepiece view, I was in a field west of Layton. Anyone want to take up a collection and by me a apochromat?
BTW: I know you are ribbing me. You see color in everything with that refractor. ;o)
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:22 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I have seen color in the trifid with my 6" refractor.
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Yes, but it was said with affection. This suggests an interesting, easy experiment, one that is obvious yet I've never done it. We should compare views of bright objects through a standard achromatic objective, side-by-side with an apo or ED objective of similar aperture. I have 80mm and 100mm ED scopes that I would volunteer, though not mounted at the same time. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:45 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Of course your right, bright objects have a purple halo (minus violet filters help) objects like trifid are not bright enough to elicit that response. Ken Meyer calls it chromatic enhancement, I saw pink and light blue, it was perhaps my most memorable eyepiece view, I was in a field west of Layton. Anyone want to take up a collection and by me a apochromat?
BTW: I know you are ribbing me.
You see color in everything with that refractor. ;o)
Plutonic affection, I hope.
Yes, but it was said with affection.
This suggests an interesting, easy experiment, one that is obvious yet I've never done it. We should compare views of bright objects through a standard achromatic objective, side-by-side with an apo or ED objective of similar aperture.
I have 80mm and 100mm ED scopes that I would volunteer, though not mounted at the same time.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:45 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Of course your right, bright objects have a purple halo (minus violet filters help) objects like trifid are not bright enough to elicit that response. Ken Meyer calls it chromatic enhancement, I saw pink and light blue, it was perhaps my most memorable eyepiece view, I was in a field west of Layton. Anyone want to take up a collection and by me a apochromat?
BTW: I know you are ribbing me.
You see color in everything with that refractor. ;o)
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Certainly not Uranic (forgive me all), anyway I think we can meet at Temple Square without getting the attention of Temple Security or the SLPD.
Maybe Neptonic or Charonic, I forget. One of those outer ones, anyway.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:38 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Plutonic affection, I hope.
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