I read an old 1997 Ad Astra put out by the National Space Society. Robert Zubrin was advocating that in 2000 NASA would complete a report on humans to Mars and by 2008 humans would be sent to Mars. Zubrin recommended "living off the land" in our Mars exploration efforts. I am not surprised about this lack of progress as I think robotic exploration is much more cost effective. As computers get more and more powerful the robotic edge over humans will grow. Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your greater success. GO to PublishAmerica.com Consulting For Profit is also available. Learn how to make money as a consultant.
Here it is : http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight.... 18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames. Cheers David
Very nice. You make it look so easy. :) patrick On 07 May 2010, at 13:49, David Rankin wrote:
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
Thanks Patrick :) Patrick Wiggins wrote:
Very nice. You make it look so easy. :)
patrick
On 07 May 2010, at 13:49, David Rankin wrote:
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
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Grrr. Getting jealous. ________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:49:24 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night Here it is : http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight.... 18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames. Cheers David _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Star party tomorrow night? Steve
From: paw@wirelessbeehive.com Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 17:44:01 -0600 To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Joe, are you coming out to tonight's or tomorrow night's star parties at SPOC?
If you do I'd be happy to help with your imaging endeavours.
patrick
On 07 May 2010, at 15:56, Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
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Hi Steve, Yeah, but you need a secret decoder ring to know about it. :) Actually it (and tonight) are the first of this year's New Moon SPOC star parties at SPOC that Prez. Bernson organized. Not open to public (which is why you have to logon to the SLAS Members Only page to see it listed). But it is open to members (you) and guests (pretty much anyone on this list). Clear skies, patrick On 07 May 2010, at 17:56, Steve FISHER wrote:
Star party tomorrow night?
Steve
Hmmmmmmmm. I signed on and didn't see anything. I guess I will have to check under the bed and see if I can find the decoder ring. All hail President Bernson.
From: paw@wirelessbeehive.com Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 18:03:44 -0600 To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] SPOC new Moon star parties (Was: Leo Trio from last night)
Hi Steve,
Yeah, but you need a secret decoder ring to know about it. :)
Actually it (and tonight) are the first of this year's New Moon SPOC star parties at SPOC that Prez. Bernson organized.
Not open to public (which is why you have to logon to the SLAS Members Only page to see it listed). But it is open to members (you) and guests (pretty much anyone on this list).
Clear skies,
patrick
On 07 May 2010, at 17:56, Steve FISHER wrote:
Star party tomorrow night?
Steve
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Ah, you're right. For some reason both are on the "Reserve Observatory" page instead of the Events page. Weird. At any rate, I just spoke with the the good Mr. Bernson and he said he did not send out a SLAS Blast about tonight because of a conflict with another event but will be sending one out for tomorrow's star party. Cheers, patrick On 07 May 2010, at 18:11, Steve FISHER wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm. I signed on and didn't see anything. I guess I will have to check under the bed and see if I can find the decoder ring.
All hail President Bernson.
It seems our president has trouble reserving observatory, if a key holder decided to reserve it before Dave does it would be up to the individual who reserves it wether a general invitation is extended.
Hmmmmmmmm. I signed on and didn't see anything. I guess I will have to check under the bed and see if I can find the decoder ring.
All hail President Bernson.
From: paw@wirelessbeehive.com Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 18:03:44 -0600 To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] SPOC new Moon star parties (Was: Leo Trio from last night)
Hi Steve,
Yeah, but you need a secret decoder ring to know about it. :)
Actually it (and tonight) are the first of this year's New Moon SPOC star parties at SPOC that Prez. Bernson organized.
Not open to public (which is why you have to logon to the SLAS Members Only page to see it listed). But it is open to members (you) and guests (pretty much anyone on this list).
Clear skies,
patrick
On 07 May 2010, at 17:56, Steve FISHER wrote:
Star party tomorrow night?
Steve
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I can't tonight but tomorrow's a possibility. If I do, could I plug in my power cord even though I haven't had my SPOC retraining yet? I just want to use my own scope. Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 5:44:01 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night Joe, are you coming out to tonight's or tomorrow night's star parties at SPOC? If you do I'd be happy to help with your imaging endeavours. patrick On 07 May 2010, at 15:56, Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
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You get your new ccd yet Joe? Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:49:24 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
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Here is an imaging calculator I wrote in flash. http://rankinstudio.com/astrocalc If you put in all the inputs it will tell you your focal ratio, arcseconds/pixel, arcminutes imaged height and width, and size of your sensor in mm. - Any feedback appreciated :) David
Looks nice. But I've always wondered how one calculates the exact focal length of a given setup. I suppose one could just use the manufacture's stated focal length of the OTA. However, once one starts adding accessories to the back like focal reducers, tele-extenders, extension tubes and filter wheels the advertised focal length becomes useless. Thoughts? patrick On 07 May 2010, at 19:28, David Rankin wrote:
Here is an imaging calculator I wrote in flash.
http://rankinstudio.com/astrocalc
If you put in all the inputs it will tell you your focal ratio, arcseconds/pixel, arcminutes imaged height and width, and size of your sensor in mm.
- Any feedback appreciated :)
David
Tele-extenders and focal reducers have a multiplying factor printed on them (most do) For example, .85x. Assuming no eyepiece in the system, simply multiply the objective's focal length by that factor. Example, 8" f/10 = 80" = 2032mm focal length. 2032 x .85 = 1727mm = ~ f/7. You've changed your original system from f/10 to f/7. Filter wheels and other accessories like extension tubes with essentially no magnifying power add or subtract nothing to focal length. They just take up "IN" travel. On 5/7/10, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Looks nice. But I've always wondered how one calculates the exact focal length of a given setup. I suppose one could just use the manufacture's stated focal length of the OTA. However, once one starts adding accessories to the back like focal reducers, tele-extenders, extension tubes and filter wheels the advertised focal length becomes useless.
Now, if you use eyepiece projection, you are changing the image scale by increasing the projection distance, and must therefore calculate Effective Focal Length (EFL), but the system focal length remains unchanged. On 5/7/10, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Tele-extenders and focal reducers have a multiplying factor printed on them (most do) For example, .85x. Assuming no eyepiece in the system, simply multiply the objective's focal length by that factor. Example, 8" f/10 = 80" = 2032mm focal length. 2032 x .85 = 1727mm = ~ f/7. You've changed your original system from f/10 to f/7.
Filter wheels and other accessories like extension tubes with essentially no magnifying power add or subtract nothing to focal length. They just take up "IN" travel.
On 5/7/10, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Looks nice. But I've always wondered how one calculates the exact focal length of a given setup. I suppose one could just use the manufacture's stated focal length of the OTA. However, once one starts adding accessories to the back like focal reducers, tele-extenders, extension tubes and filter wheels the advertised focal length becomes useless.
Hi Chuck, Ok. I was thinking that if I add a filter wheel between the back of the scope and the imager the light must travel further out the back of the scope to reach the detector chip. But after reading your posts I realized that in order to get the focal point further out the back one has to move the primary mirror forward. Hence the the focal length is the same both with and without the filter wheel. This, despite the fact that the secondary mirror increases the primary mirror's focal length 5 times. So in the case of a C-14 which operates native at f/11 and 3,910mm focal length if I add a .5 focal reducer between the back of the scope and the filter wheel I end up with f/5.5 and 1,955mm focal length. Have I got that right? Thanks for your help, patrick On 08 May 2010, at 01:47, Chuck Hards wrote:
Now, if you use eyepiece projection, you are changing the image scale by increasing the projection distance, and must therefore calculate Effective Focal Length (EFL), but the system focal length remains unchanged.
Essentially correct, Patrick, but as Daniel pointed out, it can vary slightly depending on where you place it. Generally, most focal reducers/extenders are designed to be placed in one position in order for the stated multiplication factor to be correct. Check the literature that came with your reducer to make sure you are placing it where the manufacturer recommends. Cassegrains are funny animals. If the secondary is a "3X" secondary, you end up with a final focal length 3 times the primary's focal length. You can think of the secondary in a Cassegrain as a reflective Barlow. It works the same. And like a standard Barlow placed ahead of an eyepiece, you get the stated magnification factor only at a specific spacing. Same with the Cassegrain. Change the secondary spacing, and you change the magnification factor. On 5/8/10, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
So in the case of a C-14 which operates native at f/11 and 3,910mm focal length if I add a .5 focal reducer between the back of the scope and the filter wheel I end up with f/5.5 and 1,955mm focal length.
Have I got that right?
Thanks for your help,
Here's another fun fact-ish tidbit about Cassegrains. If the secondary is 3X, and you move it one millimeter towards the primary, the focal plane will shift aft three millimeters. If the secondary is 4X, moving the secondary one millimeter will shift the focal plane four millimeters. Get it? Sometimes helpful in planning and laying out your imaging equipment stack.
That's a good point. I should add an input for focal reducers and barlows. On 5/7/2010 10:08 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
Tele-extenders and focal reducers have a multiplying factor printed on them (most do) For example, .85x. Assuming no eyepiece in the system, simply multiply the objective's focal length by that factor. Example, 8" f/10 = 80" = 2032mm focal length. 2032 x .85 = 1727mm = ~ f/7. You've changed your original system from f/10 to f/7.
Filter wheels and other accessories like extension tubes with essentially no magnifying power add or subtract nothing to focal length. They just take up "IN" travel.
On 5/7/10, Patrick Wiggins<paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Looks nice. But I've always wondered how one calculates the exact focal length of a given setup. I suppose one could just use the manufacture's stated focal length of the OTA. However, once one starts adding accessories to the back like focal reducers, tele-extenders, extension tubes and filter wheels the advertised focal length becomes useless.
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David: It won't work for cassegrain telescopes. These are systems of two active elements and the final focal length depends strongly on the distance between the two elements. two lense equasion. 1/F = 1/f1 + 1/f2 -(d/f1f2) That's how the sct can change it's focal plane position, by actually changing it's focal length and focal ratio. The specs are nominal for a normal usage with a diagonal and standard eyepiece, adding filter wheels, flip mirrors, and camera adaptors changes the position of the focal plane. To come to focus will change the focal length and the focal ratio. Not a problem with the Newtonian because it only has one active element the diagonal is not active. Refractors have all the active elements tied together at a fixed distances. Also moving the placement of focal reducers and doublers in the optical train can change the final focal length because they are active elements. DT --- On Sat, 5/8/10, David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Calculating exact focal length (Was: Imaging Calculator) To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 9:26 AM That's a good point. I should add an input for focal reducers and barlows.
On 5/7/2010 10:08 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
Tele-extenders and focal reducers have a multiplying factor printed on them (most do) For example, .85x. Assuming no eyepiece in the system, simply multiply the objective's focal length by that factor. Example, 8" f/10 = 80" = 2032mm focal length. 2032 x .85 = 1727mm = ~ f/7. You've changed your original system from f/10 to f/7.
Filter wheels and other accessories like extension tubes with essentially no magnifying power add or subtract nothing to focal length. They just take up "IN" travel.
On 5/7/10, Patrick Wiggins<paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Looks nice. But I've always wondered how one calculates the exact focal length of a given setup. I suppose one could just use the manufacture's stated focal length of the OTA. However, once one starts adding accessories to the back like focal reducers, tele-extenders, extension tubes and filter wheels the advertised focal length becomes useless.
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Far from it, I'm afraid. Saving isn't easy for an old retired fellow. ________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night You get your new ccd yet Joe? Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:49:24 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
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Yea, neither is it for broke college students ;) - I will get one - one day. Why not go with a dslr? You get an XSi I'll Ha modify it for you. You can get a good used XSi for around $450 now. Joe Bauman wrote:
Far from it, I'm afraid. Saving isn't easy for an old retired fellow.
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
You get your new ccd yet Joe?
Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:49:24 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
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Well, my present CCD is OK, but I really want the new 8.3 meg version. Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 7:46:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night Yea, neither is it for broke college students ;) - I will get one - one day. Why not go with a dslr? You get an XSi I'll Ha modify it for you. You can get a good used XSi for around $450 now. Joe Bauman wrote:
Far from it, I'm afraid. Saving isn't easy for an old retired fellow.
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
You get your new ccd yet Joe?
Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:49:24 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
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That offer extends to everyone on the list as well....if anyone has or is planning on purchasing a Canon Rebel XSi XS or T1i and would like help modifying it to shoot Ha, let me know :) On 5/7/2010 9:28 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Well, my present CCD is OK, but I really want the new 8.3 meg version. Thanks, Joe
________________________________ From: David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 7:46:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Yea, neither is it for broke college students ;) - I will get one - one day.
Why not go with a dslr? You get an XSi I'll Ha modify it for you. You can get a good used XSi for around $450 now.
Joe Bauman wrote:
Far from it, I'm afraid. Saving isn't easy for an old retired fellow.
________________________________ From: David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
You get your new ccd yet Joe?
Joe Bauman wrote:
Grrr. Getting jealous.
________________________________ From: David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:49:24 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Leo Trio from last night
Here it is :
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3386&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Was fighting high winds and bad tracking because of it. There were also high clouds making everything fuzzy. I'm going to take another run at it tonight....
18, 5 1/2 minute exposures. Cooled camera, no darks flats or bias frames.
Cheers
David
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As I recall part of the problem was that they did not know what was in the martian "soil", so they did not know what was needed to extract water. The closest on earth would be extracting water from sand. Is the technology even possible? I would imagine anyone to discover how to extract water from relatively dry soil would become rich beyond imagination.
It seems there are a lot of unresolved problems blocking a trip to Mars, the technology of sustaining humans is a long way from making travel to Mars very feasible. It seems it would require a lot of money put into research that might not produce anything useful. It seems clear the public has little interest in this. We have problems on this planet we could invest in more research on, with clearer impact for the good of mankind. I read an old 1997 Ad Astra put out by the National Space Society. Robert
Zubrin was advocating that in 2000 NASA would complete a report on humans to Mars and by 2008 humans would be sent to Mars. Zubrin recommended "living off the land" in our Mars exploration efforts. I am not surprised about this lack of progress as I think robotic exploration is much more cost effective. As computers get more and more powerful the robotic edge over humans will grow.
Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your greater success. GO to PublishAmerica.com Consulting For Profit is also available. Learn how to make money as a consultant.
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participants (8)
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Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
David Rankin -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Gary Vardon -
Joe Bauman -
Patrick Wiggins -
Steve FISHER