I am considering adding a 80mm refractor to my line up for quick use in the backyard. I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for me? Looking at $300 to $400 to spend. Thanks, Jay -- Jay Eads
Jay, I guide with an Orion 80 mm "short tube" that's a joy to use. I think I'll try to get some widefield views through it, using the 12" that it's mounted on as the guidescope. Probably I will need to stick with luminosity exposures, as I suspect these relatively inexpensive refractors have color issues. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 8:43 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Small Refractor Suggestions I am considering adding a 80mm refractor to my line up for quick use in the backyard. I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for me? Looking at $300 to $400 to spend. Thanks, Jay -- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Jay, I have seen the Orion 80mm APO's go on cloudy nights for 400$. Nice little scopes. Good example : http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=47097&sort=&... **SOLD** $275 -Orion 80ED Refractor, Orion Padded Soft Carry Bag for 80ED, Orion 100mm Rings for 80ED Just have to have some patience. -David On 8/13/2011 7:43 PM, Jay Eads wrote:
I am considering adding a 80mm refractor to my line up for quick use in the backyard. I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for me? Looking at $300 to $400 to spend.
Thanks,
Jay
I've read good things on the Orion ED80. Good suggestions to watch CloudyNights. I have time, plenty of that. Thanks Joe and David. On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 9:08 PM, David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com>wrote:
Jay, I have seen the Orion 80mm APO's go on cloudy nights for 400$. Nice little scopes.
Good example :
http://www.cloudynights.com/**classifieds/showproduct.php?** product=47097&sort=&cat=9&**page=2<http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=47097&sort=&cat=9&page=2>
**SOLD** $275 -Orion 80ED Refractor, Orion Padded Soft Carry Bag for 80ED, Orion 100mm Rings for 80ED
Just have to have some patience.
-David
On 8/13/2011 7:43 PM, Jay Eads wrote:
I am considering adding a 80mm refractor to my line up for quick use in the backyard. I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for me? Looking at $300 to $400 to spend.
Thanks,
Jay
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-- Jay Eads
On 8/13/11, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
I've read good things on the Orion ED80.
Jay, I own both Orion ED scopes, the 80mm and 100mm. Color correction is outstanding on both. Both fit on my "Weightless" mount and are perfect backyard scopes. Jim Gibson used the 80mm ED on his own Weightless mount and used to have pics posted on the SLAS website. Not sure if they are still there. The only weakness is the focuser. I've replaced mine with 2-speed GSO (same as Antares) focusers, although Orion now offers their own 2-speed upgrade. It does add to the cost, however.
Hi Jay, I second the previous comments -- the standard Orion ED scopes have good images due to their relatively long focal lengths and good glass, but the focusers are the weak link. For visual use you don't need as much color correction though, and you'll want an alt-az mount, and the length and weight of those scopes is a little bit of a drawback I think. (Although I'm not familiar with the "weightless" mount.) For strictly low power use the ST80 isn't bad. But Stellarvue, William-Optics, Astrotech, Orion, Meade, Celestron, and others have all sold very good short focal length dual-speed focuser scopes new in the $600 range that I'm sure you could find for under $400 used. There are various mounts but I'm most familiar with the Vixen Porta and Universal Astronomic models. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/13/11, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
I've read good things on the Orion ED80.
Jay, I own both Orion ED scopes, the 80mm and 100mm. Color correction is outstanding on both. Both fit on my "Weightless" mount and are perfect backyard scopes.
Jim Gibson used the 80mm ED on his own Weightless mount and used to have pics posted on the SLAS website. Not sure if they are still there.
The only weakness is the focuser. I've replaced mine with 2-speed GSO (same as Antares) focusers, although Orion now offers their own 2-speed upgrade. It does add to the cost, however.
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On 8/15/11, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
(Although I'm not familiar with the "weightless" mount.)
A bit of shameless self-promotion. One of my Sky and Telescope articles. October 2000 issue, page 138 Telescope Techniques "A Weightless Woodshop Refractor" by Chuck Hards The third article in my "Woodshop" series for the magazine, stressing the use of common tools with both old materials and new. It's a Dobsonian mount variation for refractors and Cassegrains. BTW, the Orion scopes are not overly cumbersome. There are smaller scopes more suitable for airline travel, however. The 80mm uses the same tube OD, cell castings, and focuser as the 100mm unit, which makes it seem overly large, but that's part of what allows the low price. Some years ago we did side-by-side comparisons with a TeleVue scope and found that the Orion was, subjectively, about as well-corrected visually as the TV.
BTW, if anyone is interested, here are my other two "Woodshop" articles in the series S&T published: Feb. 2000 page 125 Telescope Techniques "Woodshop Eyepieces" March 1999 page 120 Telescope Techniques "Woodshop Telescopes" Here are some essays by Roland Christen, on the subject of refractors. Some good information: http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/color.html http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/ed.html http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/musing.html I would also like to note that people should not sell the achromatic doublet short. I have seen amazing lunar and planetary detail in Ziggy's refractor and Andy at SPOC. Andy is also an amazing deep-sky scope, outperforming 8" SCT's, in this user's opinion. The lack of a central obstruction can make up for incomplete color correction, apparently. Also the corrector plate on SCT's does introduce a mild amount of chromatic abberation.
One final note on refractive objectives. Our large astro-binos almost all use doublet objectives, albeit at relatively low powers, yet no-one ever seems to complain about uncorrected color in bino views. We're too busy enjoying the view! The short refractor can be a top-notch RFT. With this in mind, I may build my 6" f/5 Jaegers refractor first, out of all the lenses I recently purchased from Surplus Shed. As for long-focus refractors, I have a home-made 50mm f/20 refractor, built around a 50-year-old military surplus cemented doublet. This is one of the most fun telescopes I have ever used, having seen every Messier object and countless NGC/IC objects with it, from my light-polluted back yard. All with less than 2" of aperture.
Jay, I'd go with one of the William Optics refractors. It has a nice fit and finish. It would be nice to piggy-back it on my 120 Megrez. http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=743778 One thing to remember with these scopes, if you buy new from the manufacturer, be prepared to pay an 8% duty tax when it arrives at your door. And they do not accept cash; only a check. Debbie On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
One final note on refractive objectives.
Our large astro-binos almost all use doublet objectives, albeit at relatively low powers, yet no-one ever seems to complain about uncorrected color in bino views. We're too busy enjoying the view!
The short refractor can be a top-notch RFT. With this in mind, I may build my 6" f/5 Jaegers refractor first, out of all the lenses I recently purchased from Surplus Shed.
As for long-focus refractors, I have a home-made 50mm f/20 refractor, built around a 50-year-old military surplus cemented doublet. This is one of the most fun telescopes I have ever used, having seen every Messier object and countless NGC/IC objects with it, from my light-polluted back yard. All with less than 2" of aperture.
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On 8/16/11, Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> wrote:
Jay,
I'd go with one of the William Optics refractors. It has a nice fit and finish. It would be nice to piggy-back it on my 120 Megrez.
Debbie, you'll need to elaborate on "fit and finish". Is it actually worth the extra money to a working man? Optics is everything, after all, and optically, William isn't a cut above. In fact their quality has been slipping lately.
William Optics was one of the first to introduce high quality "fit and finish" at a reasonable price and well known for it; I never once heard anyone say it wasn't worth it and most of the people I have been in contact with actually feel that the mechanics are actually as important as the optics. The WO scopes were considered a little better than most as they were made in Taiwan not China and the Stellarvue scopes even better of course as all were hand-tested. I visited the WO headquarters when they had one in the US and they took great pride in their product and their service. I think it was too bad that they closed it down. Of course many similar scopes came on the market afterwards and I don't think any were bad. I don't know the current status though. It is true that the Orion used FPL-53 glass and the WO only FPL-51, but for visual use there was no noticeable difference. Of course there are now triplets available for reasonable prices as well. I noticed the improved contrast on Jupiter in my first view through a Vixen 80mm ED doublet compared to my 8" SCT and bought my first refractor the next day. I had my scope up to 182x with no issues. There is definitely more color through my smaller f6 scope than my f7 one though, and I can't push the powers nearly as high. Personally I would be plenty happy with lighter optical tubes if it were possible, but I've appreciated the other features. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Small Refractor Suggestions On 8/16/11, Debbie <astrodeb@beyondbb.com> wrote:
Jay,
I'd go with one of the William Optics refractors. It has a nice fit and finish. It would be nice to piggy-back it on my 120 Megrez.
Debbie, you'll need to elaborate on "fit and finish". Is it actually worth the extra money to a working man? Optics is everything, after all, and optically, William isn't a cut above. In fact their quality has been slipping lately. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Stellarvue used to make some very good short focal length achromatic doublets (the Nighthawk I believe). For higher powers though a long focal length or ED glass is valuable. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 7:06 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Small Refractor Suggestions One final note on refractive objectives. Our large astro-binos almost all use doublet objectives, albeit at relatively low powers, yet no-one ever seems to complain about uncorrected color in bino views. We're too busy enjoying the view! The short refractor can be a top-notch RFT. With this in mind, I may build my 6" f/5 Jaegers refractor first, out of all the lenses I recently purchased from Surplus Shed. As for long-focus refractors, I have a home-made 50mm f/20 refractor, built around a 50-year-old military surplus cemented doublet. This is one of the most fun telescopes I have ever used, having seen every Messier object and countless NGC/IC objects with it, from my light-polluted back yard. All with less than 2" of aperture. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
I want to apologize to Debbie, and the list members at large, as my reply was made in haste and is obviously confrontational, read in retrospect. I have purchased 2 WO accessories (neither was an optical tube). One, bought several years ago, was impeccable, the other, purchased more recently, had obvious manufacturing flaws. I returned it to the seller for a full refund, was not interested in an exchange. I have also heard from others of a slip in WO quality recently, one is a U-A list member who can post or remain silent as they see fit. Every manufacturer has items that slip past QA on occassion, but when it happens to a manufacturer of high repute, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth, sometimes for a long time. One man's meat is another man's poison, as they say. YMMV.
I would say that refractor tube assemblies are perhaps the easiest for an ATM'er to build themselves. Aluminum irrigation pipe seems to come in most diameters and is pretty easy to cut, I've done it with a hack saw and a file to square it.
I have some extra pieces for a 5" and 6" refractor if any wants some. BTW, I think one of most impressive 4" refractors I have seen was a Unitron. I want to apologize to Debbie, and the list members at large, as my
reply was made in haste and is obviously confrontational, read in retrospect.
I have purchased 2 WO accessories (neither was an optical tube). One, bought several years ago, was impeccable, the other, purchased more recently, had obvious manufacturing flaws. I returned it to the seller for a full refund, was not interested in an exchange. I have also heard from others of a slip in WO quality recently, one is a U-A list member who can post or remain silent as they see fit.
Every manufacturer has items that slip past QA on occassion, but when it happens to a manufacturer of high repute, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth, sometimes for a long time.
One man's meat is another man's poison, as they say.
YMMV.
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Erik, I was just quoted some long lead times on tubing from Joe Nastasi at Parallax, as well as Hastings. I'm looking for some 5" OD and 7" OD. Will gladly buy it from you if it fills the bill. On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I would say that refractor tube assemblies are perhaps the easiest for an ATM'er to build themselves. Aluminum irrigation pipe seems to come in most diameters and is pretty easy to cut, I've done it with a hack saw and a file to square it.
I have some extra pieces for a 5" and 6" refractor if any wants some.
Chuck,
You are welcome (no need to exchange it for cash) to any scrap pieces, I have both sizes but probably just enough for dew caps. I did buy the tubing locally and it was always in stock, as I recall I looked in the yellow pages under irrigation tubing. Erik Erik, I was just quoted some long lead times on tubing from Joe
Nastasi at Parallax, as well as Hastings. I'm looking for some 5" OD and 7" OD. Will gladly buy it from you if it fills the bill.
On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I would say that refractor tube assemblies are perhaps the easiest for an ATM'er to build themselves. Aluminum irrigation pipe seems to come in most diameters and is pretty easy to cut, I've done it with a hack saw and a file to square it.
I have some extra pieces for a 5" and 6" refractor if any wants some.
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Harward Irrigation (Sprinkler World). I've been buying tubing from them for decades, but since there isn't much farming in the Salt Lake valley anymore, they moved their agricultural division down to Springville. They only ever have scraps at the Sandy store now, which is more geared towards landscapers. They started out in South Salt Lake, on 3rd West, many years ago. I bought an aluminum tube from them when I was about 16 from a salesman named Horace, who would be about 90 years old now, if he's still alive. I was going to make a run down to Springville in coming weeks and will see what they have. I need some substantial lengths, but might take the "dewcap" lengths off your hands, thanks! They close the agri division in winter so I need to get this done sooner rather than later. I also bought tubing from Rain for Rent, but lately they haven't been interested in selling it. Too bad, they have a yard just a mile from where I work. On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
You are welcome (no need to exchange it for cash) to any scrap pieces, I have both sizes but probably just enough for dew caps. I did buy the tubing locally and it was always in stock, as I recall I looked in the yellow pages under irrigation tubing.
I have gotten sprinkler parts from them, thats not where I bought the tubing. I'll see if I can find the supplier, I do remember their general location. It was West of Redwood and south of 72th So.
You are welcome to my scrap it may be of some benefit, I've kept it in case I need to make a new dew cap. Harward Irrigation (Sprinkler World). I've been buying tubing from
them for decades, but since there isn't much farming in the Salt Lake valley anymore, they moved their agricultural division down to Springville. They only ever have scraps at the Sandy store now, which is more geared towards landscapers.
They started out in South Salt Lake, on 3rd West, many years ago. I bought an aluminum tube from them when I was about 16 from a salesman named Horace, who would be about 90 years old now, if he's still alive.
I was going to make a run down to Springville in coming weeks and will see what they have. I need some substantial lengths, but might take the "dewcap" lengths off your hands, thanks!
They close the agri division in winter so I need to get this done sooner rather than later.
I also bought tubing from Rain for Rent, but lately they haven't been interested in selling it. Too bad, they have a yard just a mile from where I work.
On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
You are welcome (no need to exchange it for cash) to any scrap pieces, I have both sizes but probably just enough for dew caps. I did buy the tubing locally and it was always in stock, as I recall I looked in the yellow pages under irrigation tubing.
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On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I have gotten sprinkler parts from them, thats not where I bought the tubing. I'll see if I can find the supplier, I do remember their general location. It was West of Redwood and south of 72th So.
Was it Sprinkler Supply Co.? They are in that general area, but a little east of Redwood, IIRC. I talked to a salesman at Sprinkler World and they said that I could order the tubing and they'd drive it up from their Springville yard free, and I could pick it up in Sandy.
It may have been a tubing manufacturer, I'll call around this afternoon.
On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I have gotten sprinkler parts from them, thats not where I bought the tubing. I'll see if I can find the supplier, I do remember their general location. It was West of Redwood and south of 72th So.
Was it Sprinkler Supply Co.? They are in that general area, but a little east of Redwood, IIRC.
I talked to a salesman at Sprinkler World and they said that I could order the tubing and they'd drive it up from their Springville yard free, and I could pick it up in Sandy.
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That Explore Scientific 80mm is also a nice little scope. It is a triplet so it may cost more than $400 used. My friend won one last fall at the Pasadena astronomy show. He said he paid $5 for the scope. I offered him $10 and he refused. LOL. I split Antares and Delta Cygni with my WO 120mm at Rainbow Point. I think I'll try Lamba Cygni and Mu Cygni next time on the mountain. I'm happy with the scope and will keep it or until they come out with a 140mm. Debbie On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
It may have been a tubing manufacturer, I'll call around this afternoon.
On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I have gotten sprinkler parts from them, thats not where I bought the tubing. I'll see if I can find the supplier, I do remember their general location. It was West of Redwood and south of 72th So.
Was it Sprinkler Supply Co.? They are in that general area, but a little east of Redwood, IIRC.
I talked to a salesman at Sprinkler World and they said that I could order the tubing and they'd drive it up from their Springville yard free, and I could pick it up in Sandy.
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It would be fun and informative to one night conduct side-by-side comparsions between an 80mm ED and 80mm triplet, of like focal lengths. In addition to admittedly subjective color and resolution tests, I could probably rig up my lux meter to measure throughput, on a bright object at least. 4 air-to-glass surfaces vs. 6 should have a measureable effect on throughput, given equal anti-reflection coatings. That's my biggest gripe with small refractors. The image is so dim compared to what I am used to seeing in larger apertures, except at low powers, where they truly excell. Of course used at low powers, uncorrected color is not the issue that it is at higher magnifications, visually at least.
Well, my dream scope would be the Astrophysics 5" f 6, all I need is $4000. Anyone willing to donate to the cause. Seems like as a homeowner something always pops up to spend money on other than toys.
That Explore Scientific 80mm is also a nice little scope. It is a triplet
so it may cost more than $400 used. My friend won one last fall at the Pasadena astronomy show. He said he paid $5 for the scope. I offered him $10 and he refused. LOL.
I split Antares and Delta Cygni with my WO 120mm at Rainbow Point. I think I'll try Lamba Cygni and Mu Cygni next time on the mountain. I'm happy with the scope and will keep it or until they come out with a 140mm.
Debbie
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
It may have been a tubing manufacturer, I'll call around this afternoon.
On 8/17/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I have gotten sprinkler parts from them, thats not where I bought the tubing. I'll see if I can find the supplier, I do remember their general location. It was West of Redwood and south of 72th So.
Was it Sprinkler Supply Co.? They are in that general area, but a little east of Redwood, IIRC.
I talked to a salesman at Sprinkler World and they said that I could order the tubing and they'd drive it up from their Springville yard free, and I could pick it up in Sandy.
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On 8/19/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Well, my dream scope would be the Astrophysics 5" f 6, all I need is $4000. Anyone willing to donate to the cause. Seems like as a homeowner something always pops up to spend money on other than toys.
Yeah, like food, lol.
Yeah, and I don't qualify for food stamps.
On 8/19/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Well, my dream scope would be the Astrophysics 5" f 6, all I need is $4000. Anyone willing to donate to the cause. Seems like as a homeowner something always pops up to spend money on other than toys.
Yeah, like food, lol.
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It may very well be that their quality is slipping; there is so much pressure on price these days that everything else seems to suffer. In Jay's case, with his price range limiting him to used equipment (except the ST80), he may actually be better off getting something a little older. On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
I want to apologize to Debbie, and the list members at large, as my reply was made in haste and is obviously confrontational, read in retrospect.
I have purchased 2 WO accessories (neither was an optical tube). One, bought several years ago, was impeccable, the other, purchased more recently, had obvious manufacturing flaws. I returned it to the seller for a full refund, was not interested in an exchange. I have also heard from others of a slip in WO quality recently, one is a U-A list member who can post or remain silent as they see fit.
Every manufacturer has items that slip past QA on occassion, but when it happens to a manufacturer of high repute, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth, sometimes for a long time.
One man's meat is another man's poison, as they say.
YMMV.
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Fantastic, I'm anxious to check out those articles. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:26 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Small Refractor Suggestions On 8/15/11, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
(Although I'm not familiar with the "weightless" mount.)
A bit of shameless self-promotion. One of my Sky and Telescope articles. October 2000 issue, page 138 Telescope Techniques "A Weightless Woodshop Refractor" by Chuck Hards The third article in my "Woodshop" series for the magazine, stressing the use of common tools with both old materials and new. It's a Dobsonian mount variation for refractors and Cassegrains. BTW, the Orion scopes are not overly cumbersome. There are smaller scopes more suitable for airline travel, however. The 80mm uses the same tube OD, cell castings, and focuser as the 100mm unit, which makes it seem overly large, but that's part of what allows the low price. Some years ago we did side-by-side comparisons with a TeleVue scope and found that the Orion was, subjectively, about as well-corrected visually as the TV. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
participants (7)
-
Chuck Hards -
Craig Smith -
David Rankin -
Debbie -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Jay Eads -
Joe Bauman