Quoting Seth Jarvis <SJarvis@slco.org>:

Part of the fallout of the Doug Short vs. Salt Lake County controversy in the late 90's was a decision by the Utah Supreme Court that is known as the "Short Rule." It forbids county agencies (such as the planetarium) from giving away goods or services to private groups (such as SLAS).

Just out of curiosity, what goods and services would those be? I think SLAS is providing goods and services for the Clark Planetarium. In fact, I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of those folks who attend the FREE public star parties at SPOC, end up spending money at the Clark Planetarium because of their experience with SLAS and SPOC. I think if the Clark Planetarium wanted a relationship with SLAS, they would make it happen. Just my opinion... Guy

Forgive me folks, but this is likely to be a lengthy post. Feel free to delete and go about your business, if you wish. It isn't my place to speak for SLAS, of course, but I've felt strongly about this issue over the years, so I'd like to add my thoughts. Some of my feelings toward the Planetarium go back to my first contact with Hansen Planetarium when I was trying to get some information about SLAS, close to 20 years ago. The staff there at the time was less than helpful. Fortunately, I eventually got connected with Bruce Grimm, who encouraged me to build rather than purchase a telescope and invited me to join SLAS. I soon learned that, except for SLAS being able to meet once a month at the Planetarium, there was really no cooperation between the two organizations. In fact, Hansen Planetarium was always given credit in the local news media for every star party or SLAS event to which the public was invited. Of course I don't hold the planetarium responsible for the media's misperceptions, but I had the impression that the planetarium was perfectly happy to take the credit for all the work done by SLAS and its members. In nearly 20 years of my association with SLAS, the only planetarium representative I have ever seen at a public star party or any other SLAS event is Patrick Wiggins. (No, I'm not exaggerating.) When I first served as SLAS president, in 1991, I invited Von Del Chamberlain, who was then director of Hansen Planetarium, to speak at one of our monthly meetings. I specifically asked Von Del to address the relationship between SLAS and the planetarium, in hopes that we could see greater cooperation between the two entities. I admire Von Del, but there was no follow-through or change in the status quo. On several occasions since that time, most recently just before Hansen Planetarium was closed, we (SLAS) asked planetarium representatives to explore with us how we might have a better relationship. Richard Cox, I believe, was the last person from the Planetarium to attend one of our meetings with that issue on the agenda. Again, nothing came of those efforts. By the time we learned that SLAS would not have a place in the new Clark Planetarium, any cooperative feelings that most SLAS members may have entertained had long since expired. Salt Lake County's policies that preclude SLAS's use of the Planetarium for monthly meetings is unfortunate. If the the mission of the Planetarium is truly to foster public science education, that mission would be more easily achieved by having a close working relationship with SLAS and other local astronomy clubs. Such a relationship should not have been perceived as some kind of favoritism, since the Planetarium would have benefited enormously. I'm curious to know if anyone from the Planetarium pointed this out to Salt Lake County government representatives? It seems to me that if the Planetarium were interested in having such a relationship with SLAS, Planetarium representatives would have lobbied the County to make it possible. If that tack was tried but simply failed, then I withdraw my criticism in this regard. Mr. Jarvis, your desire to have a more cooperative relationship is one we have been expressing for years. However, as they say, actions do speak louder than words; if you and others at the Planetarium were truly interested, wouldn't we have seen some effort on your part before now? I happen to have more hope for a cooperative association than I've seen expressed in this forum, but the ball is truly in your court. If you believe that the Planetarium should continue without such a relationship, I think we would all understand. The commercial orientation of the Planetarium is a fact we must all accept. If, however, you see some way that amateur astronomers can contribute to the mission of the Planetarium, I, for one, would like to hear your proposal. Please understand, though, that most of us are no longer willing to give so much without any recognition for SLAS or reward for our efforts. As I noted above, I do not speak for SLAS and I have no official standing in SLAS at this time. Kim ----- Original Message ----- From: Seth Jarvis<mailto:SJarvis@slco.org> To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com<mailto:utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:00 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Why the hostility? Hey! What's going on? What is it that we're supposed to have done that warrants the kind of hostility I'm reading about the planetarium? I saw the Rolly report in yesterday's paper, too. Rolly got his facts wrong. We had to discontinue giving SLAS free access to the planetarium long before we moved to Gateway. Part of the fallout of the Doug Short vs. Salt Lake County controversy in the late 90's was a decision by the Utah Supreme Court that is known as the "Short Rule." It forbids county agencies (such as the planetarium) from giving away goods or services to private groups (such as SLAS). We've had to discontinue allowing SLAS to use the planetarium for free in exactly the same way we've turned down other private groups who make similar requests. The only meeting space in the Clark Planetarium that can accommodate the membership of SLAS at its meetings is the Star Theater. Our one small classroom can only accommodate about 30 people comfortably. SLAS is welcome to meet in either space, but they'll have to pay the same rental rates for those spaces as anyone else. If I were SLAS, I'd object to paying those rental rates, too, but that doesn't mean the planetarium is being deliberately mean to SLAS. Yes, we are "more commercially oriented" now as the Clark Planetarium than we were as Hansen Planetarium, but that's because the only way our community gets to have a planetarium at all is for us to be entrepreneurial. Ask the County Council about their expectations for a financially self-sufficient planetarium if you doubt me. I'd love to see what areas of cooperation can be achieved with SLAS. We just have to work within the laws and county policies that govern the use of our facility. SLAS has goals and strategies for achieving it's goals that are, in general, the same as those of the planetarium. We both exist to encourage public awareness of the value of astronomy. I'd be more than happy to see how our respective organizations can be of service to each other. Seth Jarvis, Director Clark Planetarium sjarvis@slco.org<mailto:sjarvis@slco.org>