Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use
In the December 2008 issue of the J. Br. Astron. Assoc., historian Allan Chapman << url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Chapman_(historian) >> presents a telescopic drawing of the Moon dated July 26, 1609 by early English astronomer Thomas Harriot. The drawing is no _Sidereus Nuncius_, but is noteworthy in that it predates Galileo's earliest reported use of a telescope to view astronomical objects. Chapman places Galileo's first astronomical use of a telescope in late November or December 1609. IMHO, Harriot's lunar drawing is very crude and does nothing to displace the preeminance of Galileo's more detailed drawings and analysis in _Sidereus Nuncius_. Galileo also was the first to publish. Harriot's drawings were unpublished. The earlier Harriot observation is also mentioned in the online Galileo Project Timeline of Galileo's life. << url: http://galileo.rice.edu/chron/galileo.html >> Harriot's July 26, 1609 drawing can also be viewed at the Galileo Project website. << url: http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon.html >> Chapman also reviews the ambiguous evidence supporting the existance of the English Diggs reflector telescope. Chapman conludes the Diggs scope probably did not exist. Clear Skies - Kurt Chapman, A. Dec. 2008. Thomas Harriot: the first telescopic astronomer. J. Br. Astron. Assoc. 118(6):315-325. P.S. - The J. Br. Astron. Assoc. article is a version of lecture given by Chapman in Dec. 2007. This may be old news and not new news to some. This (Dec. 2008) was the first time I ran across this reference.
That's really interesting, Kurt. I checked the drawings and some are pretty good. It's too bad he didn't publish. -- Joe --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Canopus56 <canopus56@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Canopus56 <canopus56@yahoo.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use To: "Utah Astronomy List Serv" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 4:58 PM In the December 2008 issue of the J. Br. Astron. Assoc., historian Allan Chapman << url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Chapman_(historian) >> presents a telescopic drawing of the Moon dated July 26, 1609 by early English astronomer Thomas Harriot. The drawing is no _Sidereus Nuncius_, but is noteworthy in that it predates Galileo's earliest reported use of a telescope to view astronomical objects. Chapman places Galileo's first astronomical use of a telescope in late November or December 1609. IMHO, Harriot's lunar drawing is very crude and does nothing to displace the preeminance of Galileo's more detailed drawings and analysis in _Sidereus Nuncius_. Galileo also was the first to publish. Harriot's drawings were unpublished. The earlier Harriot observation is also mentioned in the online Galileo Project Timeline of Galileo's life. << url: http://galileo.rice.edu/chron/galileo.html >> Harriot's July 26, 1609 drawing can also be viewed at the Galileo Project website. << url: http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon.html >> Chapman also reviews the ambiguous evidence supporting the existance of the English Diggs reflector telescope. Chapman conludes the Diggs scope probably did not exist. Clear Skies - Kurt Chapman, A. Dec. 2008. Thomas Harriot: the first telescopic astronomer. J. Br. Astron. Assoc. 118(6):315-325. P.S. - The J. Br. Astron. Assoc. article is a version of lecture given by Chapman in Dec. 2007. This may be old news and not new news to some. This (Dec. 2008) was the first time I ran across this reference. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Joe hit it on the head. The first man in space wasn't Yuri Gagarin; the first one died coming back. History now has forgotten him since he didn't make headlines. "Publish or perish" as the research mantra goes. On the sports car forums I belong to, it's "pics or it didn't happen". On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
That's really interesting, Kurt. I checked the drawings and some are pretty good. It's too bad he didn't publish. -- Joe
Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s%...
It worked....quite an odd URL. Looks like Qwest is partnering with Windows Live..... Love the ATK Test shot....man I miss Utah! -Rich On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:15 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>wrote:
Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe
http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s%...
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You know, I wonder if the connection came with my fairly new laptop, and I just found it the same time as I got the Qwest service. I don't know. Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Ilove2getSpam@gmail.com <ilove2getspam@gmail.com> wrote: From: Ilove2getSpam@gmail.com <ilove2getspam@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Trying again with pics To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 10:29 PM It worked....quite an odd URL. Looks like Qwest is partnering with Windows Live..... Love the ATK Test shot....man I miss Utah! -Rich On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:15 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>wrote:
Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe
http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s%...
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That works although the picture of the ATK test is just a thumbnail and appears to show a body of water with what may be an island in it. Your imaging is coming right along. The planetary is especially nice. Watch out Tyler, Joe is catching up with you. :) It would be handy if you could post details of each shot (telescope, focal length, focal ratio, camera, exposure, filters, whether guided or not). Kudos, patrick On 30 Dec 2008, at 22:15, Joe Bauman wrote:
Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe
http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s%...
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Patrick Wiggins NASA Solar System Ambassador to Utah & NE Nevada http://utahastro.info paw@wirelessbeehive.com 435.882.1209
Patrick, I don't know what the deal is with that thumbnail of the test shot, but if you click on it, a small version of the photo comes up; if you click on that, you get the big version. I'll have to dig out info on my astrophotos and post them one of these days. Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote: From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Trying again with pics To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 10:32 PM That works although the picture of the ATK test is just a thumbnail and appears to show a body of water with what may be an island in it. Your imaging is coming right along. The planetary is especially nice. Watch out Tyler, Joe is catching up with you. :) It would be handy if you could post details of each shot (telescope, focal length, focal ratio, camera, exposure, filters, whether guided or not). Kudos, patrick On 30 Dec 2008, at 22:15, Joe Bauman wrote:
Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe
http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s%...
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Patrick Wiggins NASA Solar System Ambassador to Utah & NE Nevada http://utahastro.info paw@wirelessbeehive.com 435.882.1209 _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
The thumbnail is present because the photo is a panorama....click on the Thumbnail :) On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>wrote:
That works although the picture of the ATK test is just a thumbnail and appears to show a body of water with what may be an island in it.
Your imaging is coming right along. The planetary is especially nice.
Watch out Tyler, Joe is catching up with you. :)
It would be handy if you could post details of each shot (telescope, focal length, focal ratio, camera, exposure, filters, whether guided or not).
Kudos,
patrick
On 30 Dec 2008, at 22:15, Joe Bauman wrote:
Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe
http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s%...
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Patrick Wiggins NASA Solar System Ambassador to Utah & NE Nevada http://utahastro.info paw@wirelessbeehive.com 435.882.1209
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Great images Joe! I worked at Thiokol years ago and it was fun to see the test image. Thanks for sharing. Tyler _____________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:16 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Trying again with pics Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s% 20astrophotos?authkey=E5NjVesbiHU%24 _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Thanks, Tyler! -- Joe --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Tyler Allred <tylerallred@earthlink.net> wrote: From: Tyler Allred <tylerallred@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Trying again with pics To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 2:03 PM Great images Joe! I worked at Thiokol years ago and it was fun to see the test image. Thanks for sharing. Tyler _____________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:16 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Trying again with pics Hi, Pls try this link. Thanks, Joe http://cid-9fa170f11315b55f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Joe%20Bauman%7C4s% 20astrophotos?authkey=E5NjVesbiHU%24 _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Season’s Greetings all!! Happy days are here again especially now that the sky is clearing somewhat. I am sometimes curious if my planetarium software (Starry Nights Pro Plus 6) is telling me the truth. I was up early this morning (Wed 31st) and set up in my back yard in north Orem (4 a.m.ish). I came in the house to check something on my planetarium software when I noticed a satellite on my laptop screen about to pass through where I had been looking with my telescope. I ran outside and peered through my 9X50 finder scope and to my delight I saw the satellite go through my field of view confirming my planetarium software was accurate. Later on while reading my email, I read with interest Kurt’s (canopus56) post ‘Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use.’ I ran my trusty software back to July 26, 1609 and changed the viewing location to London England and compared. http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1609_726.gif I am guessing that the smudge at the top of the sketch would be Grimaldi. My software showed a waning crescent 25 days old with the terminator very much closer to the western (eastern?) edge with about 10% - 15% exposed in sunlight. The other picture http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1610_717.gif was sketched 17 July 1610. This sketch is very different from the first sketch Harriot made. So to compare I ran my planetarium software to 1610 . What I saw looked very much like what my planetarium software showed me for the year before; a waning crescent moon 26 days old with Grimaldi being the prominent creator. I give the guy the benefit of the doubt this being all so very new to him; Harriot observingt and recording. What I would like to know if anyone with different software has run theirs back and gotten different results than what I described? I saved images of what my results were but I don't know how to make them available. Thanks Jim
Hi Jim, Probably the difference in observing position -- i.e., UT in England vs. North Orem -- would give somewhat differing views. But I doubt they would far different, since I think it's six or seven hours' from here. -- Joe --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Jim Gibson <jimgibson00@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Jim Gibson <jimgibson00@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:35 AM Season’s Greetings all!! Happy days are here again especially now that the sky is clearing somewhat. I am sometimes curious if my planetarium software (Starry Nights Pro Plus 6) is telling me the truth. I was up early this morning (Wed 31st) and set up in my back yard in north Orem (4 a.m.ish). I came in the house to check something on my planetarium software when I noticed a satellite on my laptop screen about to pass through where I had been looking with my telescope. I ran outside and peered through my 9X50 finder scope and to my delight I saw the satellite go through my field of view confirming my planetarium software was accurate. Later on while reading my email, I read with interest Kurt’s (canopus56) post ‘Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use.’ I ran my trusty software back to July 26, 1609 and changed the viewing location to London England and compared. http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1609_726.gif I am guessing that the smudge at the top of the sketch would be Grimaldi. My software showed a waning crescent 25 days old with the terminator very much closer to the western (eastern?) edge with about 10% - 15% exposed in sunlight. The other picture http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1610_717.gif was sketched 17 July 1610. This sketch is very different from the first sketch Harriot made. So to compare I ran my planetarium software to 1610 . What I saw looked very much like what my planetarium software showed me for the year before; a waning crescent moon 26 days old with Grimaldi being the prominent creator. I give the guy the benefit of the doubt this being all so very new to him; Harriot observingt and recording. What I would like to know if anyone with different software has run theirs back and gotten different results than what I described? I saved images of what my results were but I don't know how to make them available. Thanks Jim _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
One of the articles mentioned that the dates recorded by Thomas Harriot were using a different calendar than the current one (Gregorian vs. Julian or something like that), so the dates are 10 days off. I don't remember which way though. Rich Allen Jim Gibson wrote:
SeasonΒ’s Greetings all!! Happy days are here again especially now that the sky is clearing somewhat.
I am sometimes curious if my planetarium software (Starry Nights Pro Plus 6) is telling me the truth. I was up early this morning (Wed 31st) and set up in my back yard in north Orem (4 a.m.ish). I came in the house to check something on my planetarium software when I noticed a satellite on my laptop screen about to pass through where I had been looking with my telescope. I ran outside and peered through my 9X50 finder scope and to my delight I saw the satellite go through my field of view confirming my planetarium software was accurate.
Later on while reading my email, I read with interest KurtΒ’s (canopus56) post Β‘Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use.Β’ I ran my trusty software back to July 26, 1609 and changed the viewing location to London England and compared. http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1609_726.gif
I am guessing that the smudge at the top of the sketch would be Grimaldi. My software showed a waning crescent 25 days old with the terminator very much closer to the western (eastern?) edge with about 10% - 15% exposed in sunlight.
The other picture http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1610_717.gif was sketched 17 July 1610. This sketch is very different from the first sketch Harriot made. So to compare I ran my planetarium software to 1610 . What I saw looked very much like what my planetarium software showed me for the year before; a waning crescent moon 26 days old with Grimaldi being the prominent creator.
I give the guy the benefit of the doubt this being all so very new to him; Harriot observingt and recording.
What I would like to know if anyone with different software has run theirs back and gotten different results than what I described? I saved images of what my results were but I don't know how to make them available.
Thanks
Jim
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Season’s Greetings all!! Happy days are here again especially now that the sky is clearing somewhat.
I am sometimes curious if my planetarium software (Starry Nights Pro Plus
Rich Oh yeah, I forgot. It was like they took out 2 weeks at the end of Sept of 1725 so that the next day was Oct 15th or something. If you have a planetarium software, run it for a specific date and tell me what you get for the moon. I will see if I get the same thing. thanks Jim --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Rich Allen <rico@ricosweb.net> wrote: From: Rich Allen <rico@ricosweb.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:41 AM One of the articles mentioned that the dates recorded by Thomas Harriot were using a different calendar than the current one (Gregorian vs. Julian or something like that), so the dates are 10 days off. I don't remember which way though. Rich Allen Jim Gibson wrote: 6) is telling me the truth. I was up early this morning (Wed 31st) and set up in my back yard in north Orem (4 a.m.ish). I came in the house to check something on my planetarium software when I noticed a satellite on my laptop screen about to pass through where I had been looking with my telescope. I ran outside and peered through my 9X50 finder scope and to my delight I saw the satellite go through my field of view confirming my planetarium software was accurate.
Later on while reading my email, I read with interest Kurt’s (canopus56)
post ‘Thomas Harriot - first reported astronomical telescope use.’ I ran my trusty software back to July 26, 1609 and changed the viewing location to London England and compared. http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1609_726.gif
I am guessing that the smudge at the top of the sketch would be Grimaldi.
My software showed a waning crescent 25 days old with the terminator very much closer to the western (eastern?) edge with about 10% - 15% exposed in sunlight.
The other picture http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/harriot_moon1610_717.gif
was sketched 17 July 1610. This sketch is very different from the first sketch Harriot made. So to compare I ran my planetarium software to 1610 . What I saw looked very much like what my planetarium software showed me for the year before; a waning crescent moon 26 days old with Grimaldi being the prominent creator.
I give the guy the benefit of the doubt this being all so very new to him;
Harriot observingt and recording.
What I would like to know if anyone with different software has run theirs
back and gotten different results than what I described? I saved images of what my results were but I don't know how to make them available.
Thanks
Jim
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By papal decree 1582 OCT 4 was followed by 1582 OCT 15. The drawing in question were made well after that but non-Catholic countries (including Britain) did not accept the change until years later so at the time the drawing was made it was 1609 JUL 26 by the artist's Julian calendar but 1609 AUG 06 on the Gregorian calendar. On 31 Dec 2008, at 10:41, Rich Allen wrote:
One of the articles mentioned that the dates recorded by Thomas Harriot were using a different calendar than the current one (Gregorian vs. Julian or something like that), so the dates are 10 days off. I don't remember which way though.
Rich Allen
participants (8)
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Canopus56 -
Chuck Hards -
Ilove2getSpam＠gmail.com -
Jim Gibson -
Joe Bauman -
Patrick Wiggins -
Rich Allen -
Tyler Allred