2012 DA14 parallax demonstration
I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax. Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine. The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context. I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8 Clear skies, patrick
Rats, I haven't been able to relate the pictures to each other. I can't make out similar star patterns in them. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:15 AM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax. Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine. The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context. I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8 Clear skies, patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
The smaller image is superimposed over the part of the sky on the large image that the smaller image covers. On 2/27/2013 2:20 AM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Rats, I haven't been able to relate the pictures to each other. I can't make out similar star patterns in them. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:15 AM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration
I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax.
Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine.
The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context.
I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much:
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8
Clear skies,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Oh I see, William. Thanks for the kindness of giving me an explanation. -- Joe ________________________________ From: William Lockman <lockman@aznex.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration The smaller image is superimposed over the part of the sky on the large image that the smaller image covers. On 2/27/2013 2:20 AM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Rats, I haven't been able to relate the pictures to each other. I can't make out similar star patterns in them. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:15 AM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax.
Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine.
The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context.
I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much:
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8
Clear skies,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
You're welcome Joe. On 2/27/2013 4:04 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Oh I see, William. Thanks for the kindness of giving me an explanation. -- Joe
________________________________ From: William Lockman <lockman@aznex.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration
The smaller image is superimposed over the part of the sky on the large image that the smaller image covers.
On 2/27/2013 2:20 AM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Rats, I haven't been able to relate the pictures to each other. I can't make out similar star patterns in them. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:15 AM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration
I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax.
Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine.
The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context.
I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much:
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8
Clear skies,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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One of the coolest things I've ever seen. I'm amazed at the difference! It took me a minute to realize the top image and the bottom image are the same part of the sky. Thanks for posting, and doing all of the cool brain work behind it. Dion ________________________________ From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:15 AM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] 2012 DA14 parallax demonstration I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax. Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine. The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context. I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8 Clear skies, patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
On 27 Feb 2013, at 08:19, Dion Davidson wrote:
One of the coolest things I've ever seen. I'm amazed at the difference!
Me too. I was expecting to see some shift but not that much.
Thanks for posting, and doing all of the cool brain work behind it.
Happy to do it but I don't know that there was a whole lot of brain power involved. Just me wondering "What if?". BTW, at least one person did put some brain power into it and did the math. Earlier today he posted on the Minor Planet list: +++ It is called the small angle formula: the angle in radians [360/(2 x pi) = 1 radian] is equal to the distance between the two locations divided by the distance to the object. I think you come up with a little bit more than 10 arc-minutes! This is what the image shows. Math works! +++ Yep, math works... patrick
Great demonstration. if 210,000 miles presents such dramatic parallax at 800 km camera locations, then you could regularly get parallax demonstrating photos by contacting out of state friends and arranging to image the moon at the same time. On 2/27/2013 12:15 AM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax.
Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine.
The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context.
I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much:
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8
Clear skies,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Howdy, On 27 Feb 2013, at 15:55, William Lockman wrote:
Great demonstration.
Thanks. It was a fun experiment to run.
if 210,000 miles...
Actually it was 210,000 km. :)
presents such dramatic parallax at 800 km camera locations, then you could regularly get parallax demonstrating photos by contacting out of state friends and arranging to image the moon at the same time.
Folks that have been on the list a long time might remember that I did just that a few years ago with list member Rob on Maui. We coordinated efforts and shot images of the Moon both here and there at the exact time time. I could have sworn I'd posted the images on the SLAS Gallery but I just checked and saw they were not there. But I did find them on my server. Have a look. Here with the Utah image on the left and the Hawaii image on the right. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/uh.jpg Here with the Hawaii image on the left and the Utah image on the right. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/hu.jpg And here with both sets together. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/uhhu.jpg Now that it's clouded over, I may just finally get around to posting them to the SLAS Gallery. Clear skies, patrick
I forgot to mention that sometimes when I use the cross eye method to view the pairs one pair makes the Moon look like a sphere sticking out towards me while the other pair has the Moon looking like a concave dish. Anyone else seeing that? Apparently any 3D effect is an illusion as I get the same thing when looking cross eyed at two copies of the same image. patrick On 27 Feb 2013, at 21:38, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
Howdy,
On 27 Feb 2013, at 15:55, William Lockman wrote:
Great demonstration.
Thanks. It was a fun experiment to run.
if 210,000 miles...
Actually it was 210,000 km. :)
presents such dramatic parallax at 800 km camera locations, then you could regularly get parallax demonstrating photos by contacting out of state friends and arranging to image the moon at the same time.
Folks that have been on the list a long time might remember that I did just that a few years ago with list member Rob on Maui.
We coordinated efforts and shot images of the Moon both here and there at the exact time time.
I could have sworn I'd posted the images on the SLAS Gallery but I just checked and saw they were not there. But I did find them on my server. Have a look.
Here with the Utah image on the left and the Hawaii image on the right. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/uh.jpg
Here with the Hawaii image on the left and the Utah image on the right. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/hu.jpg
And here with both sets together. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/uhhu.jpg
Now that it's clouded over, I may just finally get around to posting them to the SLAS Gallery.
Clear skies,
patrick
Yep, it's a well-known phenomenon. Decades ago I had a summer job with a company that did stereo aerial surveys on large-format film. If you reversed the left-right orientation of the stereo pairs, the topography was reversed- river beds stuck up, mountains were depressed. It was weird! I noticed the same thing with my Hale-Bopp stereo pairs. For those, rather than taking two shots simultaneously from widely separated geographical locations, I just used shots separated by an hour or so in time. During that time, the earth moved quite a distance in it's orbit, as well as the comet in it's orbit, which gave the necessary displacement relative to the background stars. The stereo effect was the same as simultaneous shots. When reversed left-for-right, it appeared that the comet was behind the stars, instead of in front of them. A bit OT astronomically, but on-topic as far as stereo imaging. These are rather remarkable shots. I posted this link some years ago but here it is again for recent list-serve subscribers: http://www.lenticulations.com/#1 On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>wrote:
I forgot to mention that sometimes when I use the cross eye method to view the pairs one pair makes the Moon look like a sphere sticking out towards me while the other pair has the Moon looking like a concave dish.
Anyone else seeing that?
Apparently any 3D effect is an illusion as I get the same thing when looking cross eyed at two copies of the same image.
I liked the two sets together best. Then you can see the concave image on top and the convex image with the bottom pair. You can reverse this situation if you let them superimpose the other direction, by relaxing your focus to infinity so your eye directions are parallel. On 2/28/2013 4:39 AM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
I forgot to mention that sometimes when I use the cross eye method to view the pairs one pair makes the Moon look like a sphere sticking out towards me while the other pair has the Moon looking like a concave dish.
Anyone else seeing that?
Apparently any 3D effect is an illusion as I get the same thing when looking cross eyed at two copies of the same image.
patrick
On 27 Feb 2013, at 21:38, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
Howdy,
On 27 Feb 2013, at 15:55, William Lockman wrote:
Great demonstration. Thanks. It was a fun experiment to run.
if 210,000 miles... Actually it was 210,000 km. :)
presents such dramatic parallax at 800 km camera locations, then you could regularly get parallax demonstrating photos by contacting out of state friends and arranging to image the moon at the same time. Folks that have been on the list a long time might remember that I did just that a few years ago with list member Rob on Maui.
We coordinated efforts and shot images of the Moon both here and there at the exact time time.
I could have sworn I'd posted the images on the SLAS Gallery but I just checked and saw they were not there. But I did find them on my server. Have a look.
Here with the Utah image on the left and the Hawaii image on the right. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/uh.jpg
Here with the Hawaii image on the left and the Utah image on the right. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/hu.jpg
And here with both sets together. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/stereo/uhhu.jpg
Now that it's clouded over, I may just finally get around to posting them to the SLAS Gallery.
Clear skies,
patrick
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Patrick, These comments are directed toward the very slight, if any, stereo effect achieved in the paired images you posted of the Moon. They have nothing to do with showing the parallax of the Moon against the star field background. The failure to perceive a stereo view in these images from SPOC & Hawaii could be due to two factors: l. The very small viewing angle between the two images is equivalent to viewing a 13 cm ball from about 5.3 meters - a difficult situation at best to perceive the ball's convex surface. 2. Possible misorientation of the paired images with respect to the plane defined by SPOC, Hawaii, and the Moon. Imagine a line across each image that lies in this plane at the time the pictures were taken. The images must then be placed in the paired image so these two lines are parallel and actually horizontal. I've examined the paired images carefully, and I cannot detect a difference in the images in any direction, so I cannot tell if the images are oriented correctly or not. It may be that the stereo effect is so minute as to be unnoticeable. An obvious way to get a stereo pair is to find, or shoot, two images of the "full" Moon that show the extremes that allow us to see slightly more than exactly 1/2 the surface of the Moon. Properly oriented and paired, those two images would make a distinct stereo image of the Moon. Ed Stimpson --------------------------------- Quoting Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>:
I forgot to mention that sometimes when I use the cross eye method to view the pairs one pair makes the Moon look like a sphere sticking out towards me while the other pair has the Moon looking like a concave dish.
Anyone else seeing that?
Apparently any 3D effect is an illusion as I get the same thing when looking cross eyed at two copies of the same image.
patrick
On 2/28/2013 4:39 AM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
I forgot to mention that sometimes when I use the cross eye method to view the pairs one pair makes the Moon look like a sphere sticking out towards me while the other pair has the Moon looking like a concave dish.
Patrick, I may have already mentioned this elsewhere, but one of my favorite cartoonists is Gahan Wilson, who drew macabe cartoons for 50+ years for Playboy (I suspect you would not know him, although he also did work for the New Yorker--who described him as Norman Rockwell's evil twin, so you might.). Anyway, one of my favorites came from the era when Apollo first went around the moon and the backside was viewed for the first time. He drew a cartoon showing a large metal concave dish wth massive beams supporting the structure, In large black letters were painted the words act 2, scene 3 (or the like as I cannot remember the exact wording). Dan gave me a 3 book collection of his Playboy cartoons, which I greatly treasure. 73 PS: For those interested, you can see samples of his work at _www.condenaststore.com,_ just enter his name in the search area.
Very cool. Impressive demonstration of parallax. I would never have guessed that the distance would have been so great. Come to think of it, I would never have guessed to do the demonstration. Nice work. On Feb 27, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
I recently posted a request on the Minor Planet Mailing List asking to hear from anyone who happened to be imaging 2012 DA14 at the same time I was. My hope was to find a picture taken at the same time as one of mine and to use the two images to show the effects of parallax.
Happily a guy who had been using the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona that night to shoot 2012 DA14 replied and we were able to determine that one of his many images had been taken within half a second of one of mine.
The FOV of his image was smaller than mine so I had to do a bit of Photoshopping to align the two and then add a third image taken from the STScI Digitized Sky Survey to show context.
I thought that since there is about 800 km between our two sites and 2012 DA14 was still pretty close (~210,000 km) I'd see some parallax but was actually surprised at how much:
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=68&g2_page=8
Clear skies,
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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participants (8)
-
Chuck Hards -
Dave Gary -
Dion Davidson -
Ed -
Joe Bauman -
Larry Holmes -
Patrick Wiggins -
William Lockman