Ouch! I called Sen. Hellewell (from Orem), and he said I've been the first person to support this bill; he said he's had dozens of calls against it. (Businesses worried they can't adequately light their property or signs, etc.). Please do call and voice support today! Rich __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Thanks for that update Rich, could you please (perhaps privately) send me the number you used to contact Sen. Hellewell? Also, as a question to the list, when approaching the legistlator, what would be my best approach? What types of things ought I to say? I just read through the text of the bill (easy enough) and mostly agree with it. I would imagine most businesses concerns are ill-founded if they were to look closely at the options available to them. One downside, however, I could see to existing businesses would be the cost of retrofitting/replacing existing lighting systems--in many cases such a change could be costly. But I think the argument about not being able to adequately light their buildings without polluting the sky is rubbish. They're just not being creative enough :-). About the only thing I don't like about the bill is its lack of teeth, it's simply a document that 'urges' but doesn't 'mandate'. I guess at the least it's a step in the right direction. Thanks for any input, I plan on calling the Senator today. -- Dan Hanks On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Richard Tenney wrote:
Ouch!
I called Sen. Hellewell (from Orem), and he said I've been the first person to support this bill; he said he's had dozens of calls against it. (Businesses worried they can't adequately light their property or signs, etc.).
Please do call and voice support today! Rich
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Dan, and anyone else that wants to call Sen. Hellewell: His cell number is 787-6109 Thanks, Rich --- hanksdc@plug.org wrote:
Thanks for that update Rich, could you please (perhaps privately) send me the number you used to contact Sen. Hellewell?
Also, as a question to the list, when approaching the legistlator, what would be my best approach? What types of things ought I to say? I just read through the text of the bill (easy enough) and mostly agree with it. I would imagine most businesses concerns are ill-founded if they were to look closely at the options available to them. One downside, however, I could see to existing businesses would be the cost of retrofitting/replacing existing lighting systems--in many cases such a change could be costly. But I think the argument about not being able to adequately light their buildings without polluting the sky is rubbish. They're just not being creative enough :-).
About the only thing I don't like about the bill is its lack of teeth, it's simply a document that 'urges' but doesn't 'mandate'. I guess at the least it's a step in the right direction.
Thanks for any input, I plan on calling the Senator today.
-- Dan Hanks
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Richard Tenney wrote:
Ouch!
I called Sen. Hellewell (from Orem), and he said I've been the first person to support this bill; he said he's had dozens of calls against it. (Businesses worried they can't adequately light their property or signs, etc.).
Please do call and voice support today! Rich
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I understand the vote went against this bill (resolution) by a vote of three to two. It seems to me like thisis a very important issue for thos of us living in the intermountain west, not just Utah. I am also disturbed that the only call that Senator Hellewell had received FOR the resolution was from Rich, and that didn't come until this afternoon. Members of the Slat Lake Astronomical Society pay membership dues to the Astronomical League. Many are also members of teh International Dark Sky Association. I must ask the question - Where is the support from our national organizations when critical items such as this come up? My understanding was that there may have been a representative from a Utah group representing IDA, but there was no IDA lobbying, nor support for this resolution. The Astronomical league was not represented at all. I would surmise from Senator Hellewell's comment that neither organization had even made calls in support of this resolution. What's up here? Brent --- Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ouch!
I called Sen. Hellewell (from Orem), and he said I've been the first person to support this bill; he said he's had dozens of calls against it. (Businesses worried they can't adequately light their property or signs, etc.).
Please do call and voice support today! Rich
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Please excuse my hasty post. I mistakenly hit the send button before I had a chance to proof read my previous post. I understand the vote went against this bill (resolution) by a vote of three to two. It seems to me like this is a very important issue for those of us living in the intermountain west, not just Utah. I am also disturbed that the only call that Senator Hellewell had received FOR the resolution was from Rich, and that didn't come until this afternoon. Members of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society pay membership dues to the Astronomical League. Many are also members of the International Dark Sky Association. I must ask the question - Where is the support from our national organizations when critical items such as this come up? My understanding was that there may have been a representative from a Utah group representing IDA at the hearing, but there was no IDA lobbying, nor support from the national oganization for this resolution. The Astronomical league was not represented at all. I would surmise from Senator Hellewell's comment that neither organization had even made calls in support of this resolution. What's up here? Brent --- Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ouch!
I called Sen. Hellewell (from Orem), and he said I've been the first person to support this bill; he said he's had dozens of calls against it. (Businesses worried they can't adequately light their property or signs, etc.).
Please do call and voice support today! Rich
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Brent Watson wrote:
I understand the vote went against this bill (resolution) by a vote of three to two.
I was there and there were 7 committee members present and one absent. Night skies got two votes, light polluters got the rest.
also disturbed that the only call that Senator Hellewell had received FOR the resolution was from Rich, and that didn't come until this afternoon. Two reasons. No one on our side (including Senator Allan) knew about the meeting until late last night. So even though it was mentioned here and in News, most probably did not know the vote was happening. The other reason? Apathy. As much as I hate to admit it, most, including some reading this, just don't care enough to get involved.
Members of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society pay membership dues to the Astronomical League. Many are also members of the International Dark Sky Association. I must ask the question - Where is the support from our national organizations when critical items such as this come up? IDA did have a representative there, but I too, wonder about the AL. Maybe no one told them?
Patrick
I'm so upset about this that I can't even think coherently. For one thing, I couldn't make it to the committee meeting due to my truck being in the shop. But perhaps it's better that way as I am sometimes prone to anxiety attacks. Patrick wiggins wrote:
I was there and there were 7 committee members present and one absent. Night skies got two votes, light polluters got the rest.
Some of the arguments of the @#$% light polluters, as related in tonight's meeting, astound me. The very idea that we would cause blackouts, uproot telephone poles, shoot out street lights, and so forth is nothing short of slander! It's blatantly obvious that the polluters never read the resolution. No where in the document does it mention eliminating exterior lighting altogether. How dare they go into a committee meeting with only their preconceived notions and no knowledge of the contents of the resolution?! Some might say "Welcome to the real world", but my point is that the "real world" doesn't have to be this way. Everywhere I go, I am bombarded with ill conceived notions and gibberish, and it is only because people don't think. All that they are concerned with is their everyday survival. It has nothing to do with intelligence either. I have seen children so mentally retarded that they can't even speak, yet they have a pure and delightful love for beauty. Whereas Mensa candidates can be so caught up in themselves that they can't see outside of their own infinitesimal world. On the other hand, I have seen highly intelligent people who do appreciate the world and the universe around them and try to help others do the same, present company included. Perhaps I am too cynical, I hope that I am, but it seems to me that we are losing ground. I have spent a long time building up the guts to say something like this. Believe me, I am not saying one ten thousandth of what I feel. Yet, in spite of all, I feel powerless to do anything. My best efforts prove futile. But if I quit the fight, I am nothing. Also by Patrick:
No one on our side (including Senator Allan) knew about the meeting until late last night.
That is, as Niels Bohr would say, INTERESTING. I would say more, but my suspicions are unprovable. I will say this: no one plans such a committee meeting on the spur of the moment. The opposition probably knew about the meeting days in advance. Our side, on the other hand, was likely not informed sooner due to a mere "oversight". Greg __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
participants (5)
-
Brent Watson -
Greg Taylor -
hanksdc＠plug.org -
Patrick Wiggins -
Richard Tenney