Wow. 3 nominations, 3 declines. We've had the a similar problem in the Utah Orchid Society (UOS). Not many willing to take on the responsibilities of office. I'm the UOS president this year and I was the only one nominated who was willing to run. *sigh* Oh, on the SLAS Treasurer term debate: I'm not jumping into this heated debate, just offering an FYI - The Treasurer position in the UOS has no term limit. It does help keep the accounting stable/reliable as long as the member is willing to perform the duties and does them well (We have experienced Treasurer problems in the past). My only worry as President is if something were to happen to the Treasurer (car crash, health problems, etc.) you need to make sure there is a backup person who has all the accounting information and account data, just in case. I am actually presenting this at the next UOS board meeting. If not already done in the SLAS, it may be something to consider. Clear skies all and happy growing (Orchids)! Bruce Hugo
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2014, at 21:03, Bruce Hugo via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow. 3 nominations, 3 declines.
That folks declined is not unusual. That *no* one accepted is a first as far as I can remember. Rodger tells me he's got a few folks in mind and is ringing them (so maybe if you see his name on Caller ID don't answer <G> ).
We've had the a similar problem in the Utah Orchid Society (UOS).
You need to change the name to Utah Flower Observers. Makes for a much better acronym. :)
Oh, on the SLAS Treasurer term debate: I'm not jumping into this heated debate, just offering an FYI - The Treasurer position in the UOS has no term limit. It does help keep the accounting stable/reliable as long as the member is willing to perform the duties and does them well (We have experienced Treasurer problems in the past). My only worry as President is if something were to happen to the Treasurer (car crash, health problems, etc.) you need to make sure there is a backup person who has all the accounting information and account data, just in case. I am actually presenting this at the next UOS board meeting. If not already done in the SLAS, it may be something to consider.
I think the biggest problems with the Sec/Treas position are that it's actually two jobs usually done in other organizations by two people (anyone remember why we did that?) and that it does take more time than the other board positions. But I've found that if one stays on top of it it's not that hard. I rarely spend more than 10 minutes a day on it except for those days when I writing up the minutes and balancing the financial records. And it is much easier now that virtually all transactions are handled on line and all of the books are now computerized. So very much easier than the old days when everything had to be done with pencil and paper. patrick
The problem with your solution, Bruce, is that what's sauce for the secretary-treasurer should be sauce for the rest of the board members too. It's a lot simpler to just do away with all term limits. Re. backing up information: all the treasury records are on line. On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:48 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote: Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2014, at 21:03, Bruce Hugo via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow. 3 nominations, 3 declines.
That folks declined is not unusual. That *no* one accepted is a first as far as I can remember. Rodger tells me he's got a few folks in mind and is ringing them (so maybe if you see his name on Caller ID don't answer <G> ).
We've had the a similar problem in the Utah Orchid Society (UOS).
You need to change the name to Utah Flower Observers. Makes for a much better acronym. :)
Oh, on the SLAS Treasurer term debate: I'm not jumping into this heated debate, just offering an FYI - The Treasurer position in the UOS has no term limit. It does help keep the accounting stable/reliable as long as the member is willing to perform the duties and does them well (We have experienced Treasurer problems in the past). My only worry as President is if something were to happen to the Treasurer (car crash, health problems, etc.) you need to make sure there is a backup person who has all the accounting information and account data, just in case. I am actually presenting this at the next UOS board meeting. If not already done in the SLAS, it may be something to consider.
I think the biggest problems with the Sec/Treas position are that it's actually two jobs usually done in other organizations by two people (anyone remember why we did that?) and that it does take more time than the other board positions. But I've found that if one stays on top of it it's not that hard. I rarely spend more than 10 minutes a day on it except for those days when I writing up the minutes and balancing the financial records. And it is much easier now that virtually all transactions are handled on line and all of the books are now computerized. So very much easier than the old days when everything had to be done with pencil and paper. patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
On , Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote: The problem with your solution, Bruce, is that what's sauce for the secretary-treasurer should be sauce for the rest of the board members too. It's a lot simpler to just do away with all term limits. Re. backing up information: all the treasury records are on line. On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:48 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote: Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2014, at 21:03, Bruce Hugo via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow. 3 nominations, 3 declines.
That folks declined is not unusual. That *no* one accepted is a first as far as I can remember. Rodger tells me he's got a few folks in mind and is ringing them (so maybe if you see his name on Caller ID don't answer <G> ).
We've had the a similar problem in the Utah Orchid Society (UOS).
You need to change the name to Utah Flower Observers. Makes for a much better acronym. :)
Oh, on the SLAS Treasurer term debate: I'm not jumping into this heated debate, just offering an FYI - The Treasurer position in the UOS has no term limit. It does help keep the accounting stable/reliable as long as the member is willing to perform the duties and does them well (We have experienced Treasurer problems in the past). My only worry as President is if something were to happen to the Treasurer (car crash, health problems, etc.) you need to make sure there is a backup person who has all the accounting information and account data, just in case. I am actually presenting this at the next UOS board meeting. If not already done in the SLAS, it may be something to consider.
I think the biggest problems with the Sec/Treas position are that it's actually two jobs usually done in other organizations by two people (anyone remember why we did that?) and that it does take more time than the other board positions. But I've found that if one stays on top of it it's not that hard. I rarely spend more than 10 minutes a day on it except for those days when I writing up the minutes and balancing the financial records. And it is much easier now that virtually all transactions are handled on line and all of the books are now computerized. So very much easier than the old days when everything had to be done with pencil and paper. patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
On 25 Aug 2014, at 22:40, Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re. backing up information: all the treasury records are on line.
Just in case any nit pickers are monitoring this conversation I'll add that many of the records are on line but only back to 2000. And for those who might wonder or worry there are several backup copies located on various media in different locations. I have financial records from 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1999 (years I served as Sec/Treas or bookkeeper) but I'm holding off on posting those until I can reconstruct 1994-1998 and then post them all at once. There are also financial records going back to the pre-coup days (including the Elvis Presley Hound Dog Fan Club check <g> ) not to mention reams of other SLAS related paperwork I hope to eventually get scanned and posted. Some day... Of course all this computer stuff is not limited to SLAS. Members might have noticed that while Sky & Telescope and Astronomy still allow payment by paper check, it takes them months to process those as opposed to instant service when done online. That seems to indicate one day they'll go to online only. And even the feds are getting into the act. The report SLAS and other non-profits have to file with IRS each year is now online. And when I have my FAA physical every year, all of that "paperwork" has been online only for a couple of years (I understand a bunch of old-timer pilots were up in arms about that but eventually they went along when the only alternative was to be grounded). patrick
We don't need to do away with term limits. This Constitution has served us well for over 30 years. What we need is something our last speaker was talking about. A slight change in culture that puts importance on serving in the society. If we really want to continue this society we have to have more participation especially from a younger crowd. If we don't accomplish then then we may as well change our name to the OGAS. Term limits at the ballot box don't work. Look at Orin Hatch, the guy that asked, "What do you call a 3 term Senator? ... You call him home." We need to find a different solution to the problem, if there really is a problem. The term limit principal is one the two main objectives we achieved when we wrote the new Constitution. After much consideration we adopted this clause to prevent abuses and potential abuses. Requiring turnover is a good thing. On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy < utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The problem with your solution, Bruce, is that what's sauce for the secretary-treasurer should be sauce for the rest of the board members too. It's a lot simpler to just do away with all term limits. Re. backing up information: all the treasury records are on line.
On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:48 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2014, at 21:03, Bruce Hugo via Utah-Astronomy < utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow. 3 nominations, 3 declines.
That folks declined is not unusual. That *no* one accepted is a first as far as I can remember. Rodger tells me he's got a few folks in mind and is ringing them (so maybe if you see his name on Caller ID don't answer <G> ).
We've had the a similar problem in the Utah Orchid Society (UOS).
You need to change the name to Utah Flower Observers. Makes for a much better acronym. :)
Oh, on the SLAS Treasurer term debate: I'm not jumping into this heated debate, just offering an FYI - The Treasurer position in the UOS has no term limit. It does help keep the accounting stable/reliable as long as the member is willing to perform the duties and does them well (We have experienced Treasurer problems in the past). My only worry as President is if something were to happen to the Treasurer (car crash, health problems, etc.) you need to make sure there is a backup person who has all the accounting information and account data, just in case. I am actually presenting this at the next UOS board meeting. If not already done in the SLAS, it may be something to consider.
I think the biggest problems with the Sec/Treas position are that it's actually two jobs usually done in other organizations by two people (anyone remember why we did that?) and that it does take more time than the other board positions.
But I've found that if one stays on top of it it's not that hard. I rarely spend more than 10 minutes a day on it except for those days when I writing up the minutes and balancing the financial records.
And it is much easier now that virtually all transactions are handled on line and all of the books are now computerized. So very much easier than the old days when everything had to be done with pencil and paper.
patrick
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
-- Siegfried
Just curious but what could we do if no one agrees to take the job? Would the new VP serve as acting president until the 2015 board filled the vacancy by appointing someone to the post? Uncharted waters or what? patrick On 26 Aug 2014, at 00:06, Siegfried Jachmann <siegfried@jachmann.org> wrote:
We don't need to do away with term limits. This Constitution has served us well for over 30 years. What we need is something our last speaker was talking about. A slight change in culture that puts importance on serving in the society. If we really want to continue this society we have to have more participation especially from a younger crowd. If we don't accomplish then then we may as well change our name to the OGAS.
Term limits at the ballot box don't work. Look at Orin Hatch, the guy that asked, "What do you call a 3 term Senator? ... You call him home."
We need to find a different solution to the problem, if there really is a problem.
The term limit principal is one the two main objectives we achieved when we wrote the new Constitution. After much consideration we adopted this clause to prevent abuses and potential abuses. Requiring turnover is a good thing.
If we really wanted term limits we would limit the officer to one term, period, unrepeatable ever. So that's just a dumb idea. It was instituted because of a particular need at a particular time -- a need and time that passed 30 years ago. Now it's time to be flexible and reasonable. I am eager to see what the membership thinks in the voting. Meanwhile, all those who advocate term limits and haven't served within the past couple of years should feel obliged to stand for office now, since we don't even have a presidential candidate. You could announce that you are running as a write-in and push a campaign that would get you elected in the September meeting -- assuming you're willing to take action and back up your position. Otherwise, you're not part of the solution, as the old saying has it, you're part of the problem. Those who want to solve the problem will see that it makes a great deal of sense to do away with term limits. To reply to Siegfried's specific point about Orrin Hatch: a lot of people are glad to have him in office, obviously. Why do you think you should be able to tell these citizens that they can't vote for a politician they are pleased with? It's undemocratic. On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:20 AM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote: Just curious but what could we do if no one agrees to take the job? Would the new VP serve as acting president until the 2015 board filled the vacancy by appointing someone to the post? Uncharted waters or what? patrick On 26 Aug 2014, at 00:06, Siegfried Jachmann <siegfried@jachmann.org> wrote:
We don't need to do away with term limits. This Constitution has served us well for over 30 years. What we need is something our last speaker was talking about. A slight change in culture that puts importance on serving in the society. If we really want to continue this society we have to have more participation especially from a younger crowd. If we don't accomplish then then we may as well change our name to the OGAS.
Term limits at the ballot box don't work. Look at Orin Hatch, the guy that asked, "What do you call a 3 term Senator? ... You call him home."
We need to find a different solution to the problem, if there really is a problem.
The term limit principal is one the two main objectives we achieved when we wrote the new Constitution. After much consideration we adopted this clause to prevent abuses and potential abuses. Requiring turnover is a good thing.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Might I suggest that we call a halt to this for now and see what happens at the board meeting? As with posting stuff on Facebook, it's very unlikely that anything posted here is going to change anyone's mind. patrick On 26 Aug 2014, at 01:53, Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
If we really wanted term limits we would limit the officer to one term, period, unrepeatable ever. So that's just a dumb idea. It was instituted because of a particular need at a particular time -- a need and time that passed 30 years ago. Now it's time to be flexible and reasonable. I am eager to see what the membership thinks in the voting. Meanwhile, all those who advocate term limits and haven't served within the past couple of years should feel obliged to stand for office now, since we don't even have a presidential candidate. You could announce that you are running as a write-in and push a campaign that would get you elected in the September meeting -- assuming you're willing to take action and back up your position. Otherwise, you're not part of the solution, as the old saying has it, you're part of the problem. Those who want to solve the problem will see that it makes a great deal of sense to do away with term limits. To reply to Siegfried's specific point about Orrin Hatch: a lot of people are glad to have him in office, obviously. Why do you think you should be able to tell these citizens that they can't vote for a politician they are pleased with? It's undemocratic.
On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:20 AM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
Just curious but what could we do if no one agrees to take the job?
Would the new VP serve as acting president until the 2015 board filled the vacancy by appointing someone to the post?
Uncharted waters or what?
patrick
On 26 Aug 2014, at 00:06, Siegfried Jachmann <siegfried@jachmann.org> wrote:
We don't need to do away with term limits. This Constitution has served us well for over 30 years. What we need is something our last speaker was talking about. A slight change in culture that puts importance on serving in the society. If we really want to continue this society we have to have more participation especially from a younger crowd. If we don't accomplish then then we may as well change our name to the OGAS.
Term limits at the ballot box don't work. Look at Orin Hatch, the guy that asked, "What do you call a 3 term Senator? ... You call him home."
We need to find a different solution to the problem, if there really is a problem.
The term limit principal is one the two main objectives we achieved when we wrote the new Constitution. After much consideration we adopted this clause to prevent abuses and potential abuses. Requiring turnover is a good thing.
On 8/26/2014 3:42 AM, Wiggins Patrick wrote:
Might I suggest that we call a halt to this for now and see what happens at the board meeting?
As with posting stuff on Facebook, it's very unlikely that anything posted here is going to change anyone's mind.
patrick
AMEN! 73
Joe, If ever there was a "dumb" idea it's your extremism. Term limits are a part of many organizations including the Astronomical League. There the VP ascends to the presidency. Give your extremist dogmatic view a rest. We don't need a nuclear option to solve a minor problem. On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy < utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
If we really wanted term limits we would limit the officer to one term, period, unrepeatable ever. So that's just a dumb idea. It was instituted because of a particular need at a particular time -- a need and time that passed 30 years ago. Now it's time to be flexible and reasonable. I am eager to see what the membership thinks in the voting. Meanwhile, all those who advocate term limits and haven't served within the past couple of years should feel obliged to stand for office now, since we don't even have a presidential candidate. You could announce that you are running as a write-in and push a campaign that would get you elected in the September meeting -- assuming you're willing to take action and back up your position. Otherwise, you're not part of the solution, as the old saying has it, you're part of the problem. Those who want to solve the problem will see that it makes a great deal of sense to do away with term limits. To reply to Siegfried's specific point about Orrin Hatch: a lot of people are glad to have him in office, obviously. Why do you think you should be able to tell these citizens that they can't vote for a politician they are pleased with? It's undemocratic.
On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:20 AM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
Just curious but what could we do if no one agrees to take the job?
Would the new VP serve as acting president until the 2015 board filled the vacancy by appointing someone to the post?
Uncharted waters or what?
patrick
On 26 Aug 2014, at 00:06, Siegfried Jachmann <siegfried@jachmann.org> wrote:
We don't need to do away with term limits. This Constitution has served us well for over 30 years. What we need is something our last speaker was talking about. A slight change in culture that puts importance on serving in the society. If we really want to continue this society we have to have more participation especially from a younger crowd. If we don't accomplish then then we may as well change our name to the OGAS.
Term limits at the ballot box don't work. Look at Orin Hatch, the guy that asked, "What do you call a 3 term Senator? ... You call him home."
We need to find a different solution to the problem, if there really is a problem.
The term limit principal is one the two main objectives we achieved when we wrote the new Constitution. After much consideration we adopted this clause to prevent abuses and potential abuses. Requiring turnover is a good thing.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
-- Siegfried
On 8/26/2014 12:19 AM, Wiggins Patrick wrote:
Just curious but what could we do if no one agrees to take the job?
Would the new VP serve as acting president until the 2015 board filled the vacancy by appointing someone to the post?
Uncharted waters or what?
patrick
Seems like the sensible approach. Or, perhaps ask the nominees for VP if one would run for president. 73
On 8/26/2014 12:06 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
We don't need to do away with term limits. This Constitution has served us well for over 30 years. What we need is something our last speaker was talking about. A slight change in culture that puts importance on serving in the society. If we really want to continue this society we have to have more participation especially from a younger crowd. If we don't accomplish then then we may as well change our name to the OGAS.
Term limits at the ballot box don't work. Look at Orin Hatch, the guy that asked, "What do you call a 3 term Senator? ... You call him home."
We need to find a different solution to the problem, if there really is a problem.
The term limit principal is one the two main objectives we achieved when we wrote the new Constitution. After much consideration we adopted this clause to prevent abuses and potential abuses. Requiring turnover is a good thing.
Well said. 73
On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:48 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
I think the biggest problems with the Sec/Treas position are that it's actually two jobs usually done in other organizations by two people (anyone remember why we did that?) and that it does take more time than the other board positions.
In business, you never let the person who pays the bills handle the incoming monies. Perhaps that was the reason. 73
That is why 2 signatures are required, by the Constitution, for all SLAS checks. On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:48 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net>
wrote:
I think the biggest problems with the Sec/Treas position are that it's actually two jobs usually done in other organizations by two people (anyone remember why we did that?) and that it does take more time than the other board positions.
In business, you never let the person who pays the bills handle the incoming monies. Perhaps that was the reason. 73
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
-- Siegfried
participants (6)
-
Bruce Hugo -
Chuck Hards -
Joe Bauman -
Larry Holmes -
Siegfried Jachmann -
Wiggins Patrick