Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon
It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean. It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Doubling the amount of made produced CO2 is still miniscule. If you melted all the ice in the Arctic the sea level would not rise 1 centimeter. The Arctic ice floats on the water and just like your lemonade the melting ice does not increase the level of liquid in the glass. The Antarctic is a different story. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Ball Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean. It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
There's a lot of ice in Greenland, Alaska, Siberia, Northern Canada Sea ice in the Arctic has nearly 10% of its mass above sea level. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robert Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:32 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Doubling the amount of made produced CO2 is still miniscule. If you melted all the ice in the Arctic the sea level would not rise 1 centimeter. The Arctic ice floats on the water and just like your lemonade the melting ice does not increase the level of liquid in the glass. The Antarctic is a different story. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Ball Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean. It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
For an interesting blog explaining what's going on, see that of Declan McCullagh -- then tell me what you think of the dire computer predictions. The blog is at: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/24/taking_liberties/entry5761180.shtml Thanks, Joe --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Spencer Ball <spencer@spencerball.com> wrote: From: Spencer Ball <spencer@spencerball.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 1:49 PM There's a lot of ice in Greenland, Alaska, Siberia, Northern Canada Sea ice in the Arctic has nearly 10% of its mass above sea level. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robert Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:32 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Doubling the amount of made produced CO2 is still miniscule. If you melted all the ice in the Arctic the sea level would not rise 1 centimeter. The Arctic ice floats on the water and just like your lemonade the melting ice does not increase the level of liquid in the glass. The Antarctic is a different story. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Ball Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean. It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I find it interesting that most people are calling for the Hacker to be investigated and few people are calling for the information to be looked in to. I have not heard one person come out and say the information in the e-mails is not accurate, so what has been revealed seems to be true. Regardless of how the information was obtained clearly there has been a sustained effort to hide, disguise, ridicule, ignore, fabricate and mislead people. There should be Congressional hearings and this should be looked in to. While I believe that most scientists are working quietly to gather data and find real answers I also believe that there has been a long term effort to mislead the public and government by some groups. Either way, I think we can all agree that science should be conducted in the open, not in secret. Refusing to share your raw data and sources like Michael Mann (Hockey Stick Graph) and others supporting the man made theories is not conducive to good science. If "the debate is over" and "all scientists agree" then why the secrecy? I wish Congress luck on this; I hope both parties can agree that we need real answers and an open process, not a battle waged by polling, big money and politics. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:09 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... For an interesting blog explaining what's going on, see that of Declan McCullagh -- then tell me what you think of the dire computer predictions. The blog is at: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/24/taking_liberties/entry5761180.shtml Thanks, Joe --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Spencer Ball <spencer@spencerball.com> wrote: From: Spencer Ball <spencer@spencerball.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 1:49 PM There's a lot of ice in Greenland, Alaska, Siberia, Northern Canada Sea ice in the Arctic has nearly 10% of its mass above sea level. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robert Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:32 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Doubling the amount of made produced CO2 is still miniscule. If you melted all the ice in the Arctic the sea level would not rise 1 centimeter. The Arctic ice floats on the water and just like your lemonade the melting ice does not increase the level of liquid in the glass. The Antarctic is a different story. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Ball Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean. It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice. Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
This has been asserted many times, it is losing traction. Misinformation seems the debunkers tool.
I find it interesting that most people are calling for the Hacker to be
investigated and few people are calling for the information to be looked in to. I have not heard one person come out and say the information in the e-mails is not accurate, so what has been revealed seems to be true. Regardless of how the information was obtained clearly there has been a sustained effort to hide, disguise, ridicule, ignore, fabricate and mislead people.
There should be Congressional hearings and this should be looked in to. While I believe that most scientists are working quietly to gather data and find real answers I also believe that there has been a long term effort to mislead the public and government by some groups.
Either way, I think we can all agree that science should be conducted in the open, not in secret. Refusing to share your raw data and sources like Michael Mann (Hockey Stick Graph) and others supporting the man made theories is not conducive to good science. If "the debate is over" and "all scientists agree" then why the secrecy?
I wish Congress luck on this; I hope both parties can agree that we need real answers and an open process, not a battle waged by polling, big money and politics.
BT
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:09 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
For an interesting blog explaining what's going on, see that of Declan McCullagh -- then tell me what you think of the dire computer predictions. The blog is at:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/24/taking_liberties/entry5761180.shtml
Thanks, Joe
--- On Wed, 11/25/09, Spencer Ball <spencer@spencerball.com> wrote:
From: Spencer Ball <spencer@spencerball.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 1:49 PM
There's a lot of ice in Greenland, Alaska, Siberia, Northern Canada Sea ice in the Arctic has nearly 10% of its mass above sea level.
Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robert Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:32 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
Doubling the amount of made produced CO2 is still miniscule.
If you melted all the ice in the Arctic the sea level would not rise 1 centimeter. The Arctic ice floats on the water and just like your lemonade the melting ice does not increase the level of liquid in the glass.
The Antarctic is a different story.
BT
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Ball Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean.
It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice.
Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?"
Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents.
Jon
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We are just begining to melt the ice that is not floating, the majority of polar ice is not "floating". If you place ice in the glass it does increase the level of liquid.
Doubling the amount of made produced CO2 is still miniscule.
If you melted all the ice in the Arctic the sea level would not rise 1 centimeter. The Arctic ice floats on the water and just like your lemonade the melting ice does not increase the level of liquid in the glass.
The Antarctic is a different story.
BT
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Ball Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
It should be remembered that man made CO2 amounts to about 1/50 of the CO2 production of all other life forms, and that amount is much less than the CO2 from the warming and cooling of the ocean.
It also should be considered that the amount of ice contained in both polar caps would amount to an increase of 300-400 feet of the ocean. About 4 inches of rising waters does not account for much of that ice.
Spencer Ball Spencer Ball & Associates, LC 3690 E. Ft Union Blvd # 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84121 (801) 453-2000 spencer@spencerball.com
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change...
Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?"
Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents.
Jon
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Not true, recent measurements show many glaciers are growing. You can Google it. Also it is AGAIN important to REPEAT, no one is saying the Earth has not been going through a warming trend, it is, warming will cause some glaciers and ice to melt and long term we may see sea levels rise. But it's natural! What you are trying to do is say that if you can show warming, that is proof that man is causing it. I don't reject warming, I reject the man made cause. It's a cycle, and it will repeat many more times. If you want to use money as bias how about Al Gore who is making hundreds of Millions from Global warming? How about the entire environmental movement that has found a cash cow in the Global warming scam? Now into hundreds of Billions. The list of people getting rich on one side or another is long. That said I do know what the oil and gas industry provide to me, I don't understand what Al Gore and Green Peace do and how they help me. These people don't want progress Jon, they want control, Global warming is just a tool to get control. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:41 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert Taylor said: "It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that?" Robert, the ice and glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking and melting quite rapidly. I just saw pictures from around the base of Mt. Everest taken from I believe 1929 0r 1930 and then very recently. The contrast in the receding of the glaciers is alarming. The impact to roughly 2 billion people who will not have fresh water to drink when the glaciers can no longer feed the huge Asian rivers that nourish these people will be tremendous. I do not know where you get the information stating that the ice in the Himalayas is not melting. This is a false statement. Again... in my mind set, the debate for or against global warming... climate change... whatever you want to call it, is based on a very simple axiom. The folks claiming global warming is true are American and global scientists. The folks claiming global warming is false is mainly... by and large, the fossil fuel industry. One side has nothing to gain by promoting their interpretation of their scientific data. It is their data, compiled from their instruments and testing procedures. However, the other side has hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to lose if legislation is passed to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. Why should I believe the fossil fuel industry? They do not serve my interests... or any body else's interests other than their own. Besides, there is a whole economy based on renewable energy sources and tampering the affects of global warming. This nation needs to stop hindering progress and be on the forefront of sorely needed changes in the way we ive our lives, do business locally, nationally and globally. Just my two or three cents. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (5)
-
erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net -
Joe Bauman -
Robert Taylor -
Spencer Ball -
stormcrow60＠xmission.com