Patrick, Here is a link to a review on the Firstscopes: http://10minuteastronomy.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/cheap-scope-review-the-cel... Some issues with the Firstscopes are no finder is included. I would think a newbie would need at least a red dot finder attached so they can at least do basic star hopping. Another issue is as the review points out, "for Celestron to produce FirstScopes at their target price point and still stay in business, they could not afford to parabolize the primary mirrors." Thus at F4 the objects even in the center of the eyepiece are not going to look good and those on the edge, well, the observer may think they are observing over the Great Salt Lake or a dump with the sea gulls they see. Last, if the reviewer, an active amateur got tired of messing with the scope afte a couple of months, I wonder where the scopes SLAS has given out are? On a shelf? On the AWB 5 inch F/5 Dob the review in S&T seems favorable. It has a nice secondary from the view, and I would assume a parabolize mirror for the price. Much like a Sky Watcher dobs, that have collapsible truss tubes, this one is very similar. It has a red dot finder on it, basically like the Orion EZ II finder works. A final huge bonus is that all the profits go to AWB's program. So in a way the club gives back twice, once locally, once overseas. In that cost range there are two other options. One is the Orion StarMax 90mm for $199.99 at http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Cassegrain-Telescopes/Orion-StarMax-90mm... Mix reviews on the Orion. I think the AWB would be a better deal. The other is Sky-Watcher Virtuoso 90mm Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope for $250.00 which is motorized I believe. I don't know much about this one. Looks to have basic camera and dvd/smart phone adapter to take some pictures of planets. Probably same issues as what your currently giving away, decent on the moon and planets, not so great on DSO's. Perhaps someone else can chime in. So I think if your looking to get out of the Firstscope give away, the AWB 5 inch would be a good deal, at least S&T likes them. I would first order one and have it reviewed for ease of setup, ease of use and the images you get out of it. Then if that works out, great, the board can decide if that is the direction the club goes in for scope give aways. If it doesn't work out, well you have a cheap loaner or I'm sure someone would appreciate it. If the scope checks out, I would move that way if it was me. I'm sure others will share their opinions.
Hi Jay, Thanks for the input. Yes, the lack of a finder is one of the reasons there has been talk of dumping the Firstscopes. But so far no one has come up with a replacement. While better scopes cost more money I'm thinking rather than give away a bunch of cheap scopes maybe we should switch to giving away fewer but higher quality scopes. And, yes, I also wonder how many actually get used and how many are just gathering dust. Years ago Brent Watson and the company he was with at the time gave hundreds of very nice scope to schools around the state. Perhaps he can chime in with the outcome of that program. Brent? patrick On 02 Dec 2013, at 15:10, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Patrick,
Here is a link to a review on the Firstscopes:
http://10minuteastronomy.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/cheap-scope-review-the-cel...
Some issues with the Firstscopes are no finder is included. I would think a newbie would need at least a red dot finder attached so they can at least do basic star hopping. Another issue is as the review points out, "for Celestron to produce FirstScopes at their target price point and still stay in business, they could not afford to parabolize the primary mirrors." Thus at F4 the objects even in the center of the eyepiece are not going to look good and those on the edge, well, the observer may think they are observing over the Great Salt Lake or a dump with the sea gulls they see. Last, if the reviewer, an active amateur got tired of messing with the scope afte a couple of months, I wonder where the scopes SLAS has given out are? On a shelf?
On the AWB 5 inch F/5 Dob the review in S&T seems favorable. It has a nice secondary from the view, and I would assume a parabolize mirror for the price. Much like a Sky Watcher dobs, that have collapsible truss tubes, this one is very similar. It has a red dot finder on it, basically like the Orion EZ II finder works. A final huge bonus is that all the profits go to AWB's program. So in a way the club gives back twice, once locally, once overseas.
In that cost range there are two other options. One is the Orion StarMax 90mm for $199.99 at http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Cassegrain-Telescopes/Orion-StarMax-90mm...
Mix reviews on the Orion. I think the AWB would be a better deal.
The other is Sky-Watcher Virtuoso 90mm Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope for $250.00 which is motorized I believe. I don't know much about this one. Looks to have basic camera and dvd/smart phone adapter to take some pictures of planets. Probably same issues as what your currently giving away, decent on the moon and planets, not so great on DSO's. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
So I think if your looking to get out of the Firstscope give away, the AWB 5 inch would be a good deal, at least S&T likes them. I would first order one and have it reviewed for ease of setup, ease of use and the images you get out of it. Then if that works out, great, the board can decide if that is the direction the club goes in for scope give aways. If it doesn't work out, well you have a cheap loaner or I'm sure someone would appreciate it. If the scope checks out, I would move that way if it was me. I'm sure others will share their opinions.
In 1990 and 1991 Iomega gave over 350 six and eight inch telescopes to schools with the stipulation that they were to be used like a library book - checked out to students. Each school was required to have a teacher attend an intensive workshop for three days, 20 hours per day. Iomega picked up all expenses for the workshop. At the end of the training teachers were proficient in using the scope and had a good, solid knowledge of observational astronomy. We (Wayne Sumner and I) also ran some contests during the year, which for prizes we gave away subscriptions to Astronomy magazine. I believe most of those scopes are still around, although I bet many have moved away with teachers. Still others undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair and disuse. I do still hear occasionally, about their existence and use. Some still probably rattle around in the back of school buses on the way to a student's house. I know at least three of the people involved in that program from a teacher standpoint have continued on and still sponsor student astronomy programs. Last I heard one was an assistant professor of Astronomy at a local university. My opinion is that telescopes should not be given away unless a couple of conditions are met. 1) the recipient receives training on how to use the telescope, and not just an hour or two. That training should include star ID and telescope basics sufficient to instill a demonstrable proficiency in using the scope. This training is probably 10 to 15 hours over a several day period. The scope should be given at the END of that training, although it needs to be available during the training. I know that is pretty stringent, but otherwise the scope will be left un-noticed and languishing in a closet or attic. The second condition is that the scope should be usable. Personal experience tells me that it should be at least six inch aperture, and have a Telrad, a couple of eyepieces and my Bright Objects book. That was the genesis of my books, and it was for that specific purpose the Bright Object book was written. Even after all of the above has been accomplished, I predict that 75% of the telescopes will be used for less than three years. A better give-away, I believe, would be a subscription to an astronomy rag. A magazine (hard copy or internet version) coming to an individual young person each month will build anticipation, and will either prove a person's interest in the science or demonstrate otherwise. If optics are to go along with the magazine, a good pair of binoculars is a great place for anyone to start. A good guide book such as "Binocular Stargazing" by Michael D. Reynolds would make an excellent addition to a good binocular. That is my opinion based upon my experience. There are probably others that will have differing opinions, and that is good. Let's hear them! On Monday, December 2, 2013 5:37 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote: Hi Jay, Thanks for the input. Yes, the lack of a finder is one of the reasons there has been talk of dumping the Firstscopes. But so far no one has come up with a replacement. While better scopes cost more money I'm thinking rather than give away a bunch of cheap scopes maybe we should switch to giving away fewer but higher quality scopes. And, yes, I also wonder how many actually get used and how many are just gathering dust. Years ago Brent Watson and the company he was with at the time gave hundreds of very nice scope to schools around the state. Perhaps he can chime in with the outcome of that program. Brent? patrick
Excellent input Brent. I'm going to ask that this topic be added to next week's SLAS transitional board meeting agenda. patrick On 02 Dec 2013, at 18:35, Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com> wrote:
In 1990 and 1991 Iomega gave over 350 six and eight inch telescopes to schools with the stipulation that they were to be used like a library book - checked out to students. Each school was required to have a teacher attend an intensive workshop for three days, 20 hours per day. Iomega picked up all expenses for the workshop. At the end of the training teachers were proficient in using the scope and had a good, solid knowledge of observational astronomy.
We (Wayne Sumner and I) also ran some contests during the year, which for prizes we gave away subscriptions to Astronomy magazine. I believe most of those scopes are still around, although I bet many have moved away with teachers. Still others undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair and disuse. I do still hear occasionally, about their existence and use. Some still probably rattle around in the back of school buses on the way to a student's house.
I know at least three of the people involved in that program from a teacher standpoint have continued on and still sponsor student astronomy programs. Last I heard one was an assistant professor of Astronomy at a local university.
My opinion is that telescopes should not be given away unless a couple of conditions are met. 1) the recipient receives training on how to use the telescope, and not just an hour or two. That training should include star ID and telescope basics sufficient to instill a demonstrable proficiency in using the scope. This training is probably 10 to 15 hours over a several day period. The scope should be given at the END of that training, although it needs to be available during the training. I know that is pretty stringent, but otherwise the scope will be left un-noticed and languishing in a closet or attic.
The second condition is that the scope should be usable. Personal experience tells me that it should be at least six inch aperture, and have a Telrad, a couple of eyepieces and my Bright Objects book. That was the genesis of my books, and it was for that specific purpose the Bright Object book was written.
Even after all of the above has been accomplished, I predict that 75% of the telescopes will be used for less than three years.
A better give-away, I believe, would be a subscription to an astronomy rag. A magazine (hard copy or internet version) coming to an individual young person each month will build anticipation, and will either prove a person's interest in the science or demonstrate otherwise. If optics are to go along with the magazine, a good pair of binoculars is a great place for anyone to start. A good guide book such as "Binocular Stargazing" by Michael D. Reynolds would make an excellent addition to a good binocular.
That is my opinion based upon my experience. There are probably others that will have differing opinions, and that is good. Let's hear them!
Personally I think these "table top" telescopes are probably very frustrating to use and not really a 1st scope for a budding astronomer.
Excellent input Brent.
I'm going to ask that this topic be added to next week's SLAS transitional board meeting agenda.
patrick
On 02 Dec 2013, at 18:35, Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com> wrote:
In 1990 and 1991 Iomega gave over 350 six and eight inch telescopes to schools with the stipulation that they were to be used like a library book - checked out to students. Each school was required to have a teacher attend an intensive workshop for three days, 20 hours per day. Iomega picked up all expenses for the workshop. At the end of the training teachers were proficient in using the scope and had a good, solid knowledge of observational astronomy.
We (Wayne Sumner and I) also ran some contests during the year, which for prizes we gave away subscriptions to Astronomy magazine. I believe most of those scopes are still around, although I bet many have moved away with teachers. Still others undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair and disuse. I do still hear occasionally, about their existence and use. Some still probably rattle around in the back of school buses on the way to a student's house.
I know at least three of the people involved in that program from a teacher standpoint have continued on and still sponsor student astronomy programs. Last I heard one was an assistant professor of Astronomy at a local university.
My opinion is that telescopes should not be given away unless a couple of conditions are met. 1) the recipient receives training on how to use the telescope, and not just an hour or two. That training should include star ID and telescope basics sufficient to instill a demonstrable proficiency in using the scope. This training is probably 10 to 15 hours over a several day period. The scope should be given at the END of that training, although it needs to be available during the training. I know that is pretty stringent, but otherwise the scope will be left un-noticed and languishing in a closet or attic.
The second condition is that the scope should be usable. Personal experience tells me that it should be at least six inch aperture, and have a Telrad, a couple of eyepieces and my Bright Objects book. That was the genesis of my books, and it was for that specific purpose the Bright Object book was written.
Even after all of the above has been accomplished, I predict that 75% of the telescopes will be used for less than three years.
A better give-away, I believe, would be a subscription to an astronomy rag. A magazine (hard copy or internet version) coming to an individual young person each month will build anticipation, and will either prove a person's interest in the science or demonstrate otherwise. If optics are to go along with the magazine, a good pair of binoculars is a great place for anyone to start. A good guide book such as "Binocular Stargazing" by Michael D. Reynolds would make an excellent addition to a good binocular.
That is my opinion based upon my experience. There are probably others that will have differing opinions, and that is good. Let's hear them!
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I have little problem with SLAS giving away scopes, I do think people we give them to should demonstrate a desire to get involved beyond showing up to a star party.
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the input.
Yes, the lack of a finder is one of the reasons there has been talk of dumping the Firstscopes. But so far no one has come up with a replacement.
While better scopes cost more money I'm thinking rather than give away a bunch of cheap scopes maybe we should switch to giving away fewer but higher quality scopes.
And, yes, I also wonder how many actually get used and how many are just gathering dust.
Years ago Brent Watson and the company he was with at the time gave hundreds of very nice scope to schools around the state. Perhaps he can chime in with the outcome of that program. Brent?
patrick
On 02 Dec 2013, at 15:10, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Patrick,
Here is a link to a review on the Firstscopes:
http://10minuteastronomy.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/cheap-scope-review-the-cel...
Some issues with the Firstscopes are no finder is included. I would think a newbie would need at least a red dot finder attached so they can at least do basic star hopping. Another issue is as the review points out, "for Celestron to produce FirstScopes at their target price point and still stay in business, they could not afford to parabolize the primary mirrors." Thus at F4 the objects even in the center of the eyepiece are not going to look good and those on the edge, well, the observer may think they are observing over the Great Salt Lake or a dump with the sea gulls they see. Last, if the reviewer, an active amateur got tired of messing with the scope afte a couple of months, I wonder where the scopes SLAS has given out are? On a shelf?
On the AWB 5 inch F/5 Dob the review in S&T seems favorable. It has a nice secondary from the view, and I would assume a parabolize mirror for the price. Much like a Sky Watcher dobs, that have collapsible truss tubes, this one is very similar. It has a red dot finder on it, basically like the Orion EZ II finder works. A final huge bonus is that all the profits go to AWB's program. So in a way the club gives back twice, once locally, once overseas.
In that cost range there are two other options. One is the Orion StarMax 90mm for $199.99 at http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Cassegrain-Telescopes/Orion-StarMax-90mm...
Mix reviews on the Orion. I think the AWB would be a better deal.
The other is Sky-Watcher Virtuoso 90mm Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope for $250.00 which is motorized I believe. I don't know much about this one. Looks to have basic camera and dvd/smart phone adapter to take some pictures of planets. Probably same issues as what your currently giving away, decent on the moon and planets, not so great on DSO's. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
So I think if your looking to get out of the Firstscope give away, the AWB 5 inch would be a good deal, at least S&T likes them. I would first order one and have it reviewed for ease of setup, ease of use and the images you get out of it. Then if that works out, great, the board can decide if that is the direction the club goes in for scope give aways. If it doesn't work out, well you have a cheap loaner or I'm sure someone would appreciate it. If the scope checks out, I would move that way if it was me. I'm sure others will share their opinions.
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participants (4)
-
Brent Watson -
Erik Hansen -
Jay Eads -
Wiggins Patrick