My antique eyes struggle to see much below mag 5 at SPOC while some SLASers I've spoken with (with much better eyes than I) can routinely see down to mag 7 when the seeing is good. So while sky conditions and optical aid will effect seeing a great deal, your eyes also play a big part. As does your experience level. It's not all that uncommon for an experience observer to see things plainly that a novice can not see at all. On 08 Dec 2008, at 20:08, Gary Bulk wrote:

So a few questions: - Do the above 4.15 & 9.5 Magnitudes sound in the ballpark?

Sounds pretty good. The naked eye number being a bit better than I would have expected for the south end of the valley looking north.

- What would be an expected 'seeable' Magnitude? for dark sky unaided eye ... If I went to some good Southern Utah spot.

Each year SLAS does a big star party at Bryce Canyon and I do 6 much smaller ones so I'm pretty familiar with Bryce's skies. As I mentioned above, your eyes will be the real test. But certainly good, dark adapted (and usually young) eyes can get down to 6ish there. Many go deeper.

- What Magnitude should expect I be able to see with a 8" Schmidt- Cass. in town? All the planets? (Pluto is 14.9).

14-15 can be doable so, yes, all eight planets and Pluto can be seen with a C-8 although Pluto can be tough. I saw Pluto once through a C-8 but only after first finding it in a much larger scope first so I knew exactly where to look.

- And, what kind of difference will I get with the C8 if I go to a dark sky site?

For solar, lunar and most planetary views there wont be a great difference. But when you start hunting for DSOs (Deep Sky Objects) you'll find it much easier to see "faint fuzzies" from under a dark sky.

On my first night out with the scope last weekend (in the moonlight), I had a difficult time finding things. I could find the Orion Nebula. I couldn't find the Andromeda Galaxy, there were no eyeball visible stars close enough for me to successfully to hop from.

Part of that was probably experience level the other sky brightness. If the C-8 you are using has setting circles (large numbered circles, one on each axis) you can learn to use those to help find things.

Also the upside-down & left-to-right reversed guide scope was different than the upside-right but left-to-right reversed main scope, which continually confused me about which direction I was moving as I switched between them.

Again, you'll learn with experience. Note that up-down-left-right will change with the C-8 too depending on how you position the eyepiece and what accessories you use.

I am wondering if getting a guide scope that reverses things (or not) in the same way as your main scope would help.

You might try a Telrad ( http://www.backyard-astro.com/equipment/accessories/telrad/telrad.html ). They are zero power and have no light gathering ability but the "heads up display" that the Telrad affords is a plus for many. Or maybe just learn to use what you have. Since I see you just joined SLAS I'll add that all of the SLAS loaner scopes have Telrads installed. The one thing I'd stay away from are right angle finders. Much easier (for me, at least) to look straight through.

And/or perhaps a lower power main eyepiece for finding things, then switching to a higher power eyepiece.

Always start with lowest power and then work your way up if you need higher power.

- Anyone have preferred methods/techniques they would pass along?

It would be difficult to go into techniques here. Best to bring the scope to a star party and have folks show you. SLAS's public star parties will not resume until spring but sometime folks will post here about private star parties.

It looks like a should have a list before I go out away from home in the dark, so I'm not fumbling for "what do I look at now, and where is it?"

That's another personal choice item. Some get out in the field and just improvise while others are very organized (there are computer programs to help organize observing sessions though I've never used them). patrick

Gary: It sounds like you have a good start in this hobby. The practice at home will make things much easier when you finally go to dark site. This time of year though we are subject to heavy dew or even frost and that can require some extra gear like a 110volt hair drier to clear up the frosted corrector plate of a Schmidt-Cass. Good dark sites seldome have 110 volt outlets. This time of year I like to use just 10x50 binoculars. I wear them on a strap around my neck and when they become frosted, I just stick them inside my coat for 5 minutes until they are clear. There are club members who have seen all of the Messier objects with 10x50s. Plus there is very little set up and take down in the cold and dark. DT --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Gary Bulk <garybulk@the-logans.net> wrote:

From: Gary Bulk <garybulk@the-logans.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] How dim of objects can I see? To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 7:08 PM Some more questions from a novice... As I have begun looking at the sky from South Jordan, with no moon, in the light polluted Salt Lake Valley, I seem to be able to see:

- Mag. 4.15 - with the unaided eye, I can see the dim star of Cassiopeia - N2599. (I haven't been able to see the dim star of the little dipper HP79822 Mag. 4.95) - Mag. 9.5 - with my 300mm Nikon telephoto (cheap optics version with noticeable chromatic aberration) - via an up to 20 sec. exposure on my digital camera and a barn door tracker.

So a few questions: - Do the above 4.15 & 9.5 Magnitudes sound in the ballpark? - What would be an expected 'seeable' Magnitude? for dark sky unaided eye ... If I went to some good Southern Utah spot. - What Magnitude should expect I be able to see with a 8" Schmidt-Cass. in town? All the planets? (Pluto is 14.9). I just borrowed a Celestron C8 from a friend who was letting his collect dust. I'm dusting it for him for the next couple months. - And, what kind of difference will I get with the C8 if I go to a dark sky site?

On my first night out with the scope last weekend (in the moonlight), I had a difficult time finding things. I could find the Orion Nebula. I couldn't find the Andromeda Galaxy, there were no eyeball visible stars close enough for me to successfully to hop from.

Also the upside-down & left-to-right reversed guide scope was different than the upside-right but left-to-right reversed main scope, which continually confused me about which direction I was moving as I switched between them. I am wondering if getting a guide scope that reverses things (or not) in the same way as your main scope would help. And/or perhaps a lower power main eyepiece for finding things, then switching to a higher power eyepiece. - Anyone have preferred methods/techniques they would pass along?

I figure I will continue in my backyard until I can find more objects. Then maybe go to the (5 Mile Canyon) close-by area mentioned in another thread for an evening with a little more darkness after I believe I can better find my way in the dark. It looks like a should have a list before I go out away from home in the dark, so I'm not fumbling for "what do I look at now, and where is it?"

This is great fun. Gary Logan - Gary@The-Logans.net <mailto:Gary@The-Logans.net> _____

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