member loaner scope vs school subsidy
Kim.Hi Buddy, how is life? Good! I sincerely hope!Yes you are absolutely correct A SLAS Member/Teacher may check out a telescope and use it as they deem appropriate, the problem as I see it is: if many SLAS members borrowed club loaner equipment to assist in the performance of their job's we would be hard pressed to have any "in stock" for the new member's which have accounted for at least 85 to 90% of the persons borrowing them in the last decade + that I've been doing this.It just seems to me it could to turn into a mess. On another note, the soil and sod is in along the new concrete at SPOC. We cut in the missing expansion joints on the new slabs as well. Weather has'nt allowed the concrete sealer as yet. We have re installed the caution tape along the sides of the sod as the rain has made it very soggy, it likley will not dry by saturday's star party.Hopefully weather will allow a gathering at Wheeler Farm on friday, if so we'll see you there.my best to you all.Roger --- On Tue, 4/14/09, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote: From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Fw: Re: Telescope donation To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 4:52 PM I have to agree with both Rodger and Roger on this. A first-time user such as a student would benefit, anyway, from having experienced supervision. Sooooo, any SLAS-member/teacher who wants to borrow a scope to help students is certainly welcome to give them instructions using a SLAS loaner scope - right? And, any truly inspired student always has the option to come to public star parties, even bring a personal scope along, and receive personal attention. I haven't ever tried to curate SLAS-owned scopes or equipment of any kind, but I suspect the job Roger has taken on can be wearisome. I know it would be so for me. Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy- bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rodger C. Fry Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:35 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Fw: Re: Telescope donation
I think that the SLAS loaner scope policy is based on sound principle and shouldn't be modified. I think if we start loaning telescopes to teachers with the understanding that their students will use these will be a real problem. I think if a teacher wants to inspire the students to get involved in astronomy there are other resources for the teacher including our School Star Party program.
For what it is worth
Rodger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Butz" <dutchbutz@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Fw: Re: Telescope donation
utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
On 14 Apr 2009, at 10:57, Roger Butz wrote:
Hi all, Patrick mentioned a discussion about loaning club equipment to schools and school kids and has asked me to comment , I've only seen one comment from Chuck re guarding loaning club scopes to students so I am not privy to any other discussion on the subject. The slas policy is : a person must be a slas member, at least 18 years old and cannot transfer club equipment to any other individual ,even another club member. There are numerous reasons for the different policies for borrowing club equipment that we have in acted over the years as way of addressing a myriad of issues and problems that seem to crop up, We have made changes or revisions as they were appropriate. Often what may seem like a good idea on the surface ends up creating bigger problems in the long run. I used to do a Lot of School star parties myself when I lived in the salt lake valley, and personally have rebuilt or retrofitted dozens of small 2ND hand telescopes and given them to kids or schools over the years, I am working on 2 right now, so I am of like mind that any chance to inspire a child to think of something other than text messaging is always a good thing , however as slas curator I see loaning slas scopes to kids, schools, or teachers to be used in a school program as a nightmare on every level. Damage, Tracking, Liability and Theft to name a few off the top of my head. and such a policy opens a revolving door that in my opinion would create many many headaches for slas and its curator. Free loaner scopes to schools or school kids? where would it end ? A hundred scopes would soon not be enough, it would spread like opening the observatory up to private boy scout Merritt badge projects. Having them come to a public star party takes care of a lot of these needs, we do dozens a year for this reason. The SLAS Loaner scope program is set up as a benefit for SLAS members.A loaner program for the county or private school systems should be funded and run by the county. Just the repair and replacement of scopes and parts would become a full time job very quickly. Any project like this might be better handled separately from slas, similarly to the NASA ambassador program or the like. Any way as you can tell I am once again with out an opinion. Respectfully, Roger the Dodger
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I think I'll chime in here and agree with Roger. While I've no problem with teachers or students joining SLAS and borrowing telescopes I'm not sure we should really push the program with the schools. Having served as the telescope custodian in the past I know how much work there is involved with the program as it is and fear Roger could easily become overwhelmed were he suddenly to be confronted with a bunch of new requests. I could see us (SLAS) maybe holding classes which SLAS members could attend to be come familiar with simple scopes which could lead to those taking the class buying scopes of their own. Maybe SLAS could even work a deal whereby those taking the class could get some sort of discount on the purchase. Perhaps this could be discussed at tomorrow's SLAS board meeting? Cheers, patrick p.s. As long as I have your attention, here's an audio clip some of you may enjoy. Off topic to be sure but you might enjoy it anyway, especially if you've ever wondered what might happen if the pilot of the plane you're riding in suddenly became "unavailable": http://tinyurl.com/deb23a
I am with Roger the telescope custodian and school activities should remain mostly separated. Perhaps SLAS could do other things (than star parties) for schools through the school star party coordinator. Perhaps one of our clubs school teachers could start a program, we do have possible funding for school activities, perhaps schools can become less dependent on us for star parties.
I think one possibility would be for schools to form their own astronomy clubs, which SLAS could help support. We could certainly help them get their own equipment. I think I'll chime in here and agree with Roger. While I've no
problem with teachers or students joining SLAS and borrowing telescopes I'm not sure we should really push the program with the schools. Having served as the telescope custodian in the past I know how much work there is involved with the program as it is and fear Roger could easily become overwhelmed were he suddenly to be confronted with a bunch of new requests.
I could see us (SLAS) maybe holding classes which SLAS members could attend to be come familiar with simple scopes which could lead to those taking the class buying scopes of their own. Maybe SLAS could even work a deal whereby those taking the class could get some sort of discount on the purchase.
Perhaps this could be discussed at tomorrow's SLAS board meeting?
Cheers,
patrick
p.s. As long as I have your attention, here's an audio clip some of you may enjoy. Off topic to be sure but you might enjoy it anyway, especially if you've ever wondered what might happen if the pilot of the plane you're riding in suddenly became "unavailable": http://tinyurl.com/deb23a
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I withdraw my post, way too much has been read into it, or more likely, too little of it was clearly understood, my mistake. I'm not a good communicator. I just tossed out some ideas, never suggested pursuit of any particular strategy. I wondered why members who are teachers didn't seem to take advantage of the loaner scope program. As has been posted already, a member who borrows a scope can take it wherever they want while in their custody. Public relations is actually about the lowest priority on my personal astronomy list, anyway. I'll happily show-off the sky and mentor someone if they seek me out, but I will not go out of my my way to find them. I leave that up to folks with time on their hands.
Perhaps, too much has been read into many of the posts. I am very interested in ideas from teachers that are on our list. My basic idea is with University launching their Astronomy Degree, I just wonder if we can aide the public school system in getting students interested in it. The problem will always be finding volunteers to take the time and effort. I should be discussed by the board, there has been good support for school star parties, but often demand out weighs supply. Some way of schools conducting their own astronomy activities seems needed.
To me it seems a lot of our emphasis is on introducing kids to astronomy, I wonder if we could do more for kids that have a genuine interest. I think SLAS would benefit from this. It is beyond my understanding what the school system needs or is interested in, we will need input from educators. Erik I withdraw my post, way too much has been read into it, or more likely,
too little of it was clearly understood, my mistake. I'm not a good communicator. I just tossed out some ideas, never suggested pursuit of any particular strategy. I wondered why members who are teachers didn't seem to take advantage of the loaner scope program. As has been posted already, a member who borrows a scope can take it wherever they want while in their custody. Public relations is actually about the lowest priority on my personal astronomy list, anyway. I'll happily show-off the sky and mentor someone if they seek me out, but I will not go out of my my way to find them. I leave that up to folks with time on their hands. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (4)
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Chuck Hards -
erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net -
Patrick Wiggins -
Roger Butz