Re: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gaze at thestars?(MostlyOT)
In a message dated 8/20/2007 6:19:27 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, kimharch@cut.net writes: So, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does the forest exist? Did you mean does the tree exist? But either way, doesn't it have to exist because you just said it fell and you said it was in the forest, didn't you? (ha, ha). But I didn't mean to suggest that the "things" beyond the "barrier" do or don't exist. I was wondering what the Intelligent Designer could be thinking of if the Intelligent Designer creates things just for us but the things are beyond our ability to perceive? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Perhaps he/she/it was really bored? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Olhomorto@aol.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: 2007-08-20 18:27 Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gaze atthestars?(MostlyOT)
In a message dated 8/20/2007 6:19:27 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, kimharch@cut.net writes:
So, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does the forest exist?
Did you mean does the tree exist? But either way, doesn't it have to exist because you just said it fell and you said it was in the forest, didn't you? (ha, ha). But I didn't mean to suggest that the "things" beyond the "barrier" do or don't exist. I was wondering what the Intelligent Designer could be thinking of if the Intelligent Designer creates things just for us but the things are beyond our ability to perceive?
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Well, I could have just as appropriately asked, Does the tree and/or forest exist? Regarding creations of the...Creator... Maybe there are things that he created just for his own amusement. (Sorry for the gender bias, but it's just easier than writing he/she/it/they, etc.) Maybe he doesn't care if we can observe them or not. More seriously, science is about the things that are observable. So, if there is an unobservable realm, by definition it isn't of interest to science. It may be of interest to philosophers and religionists, and that is precisely the crux of the problem between creationism-intelligent-design-theory and true science. In part, it's a question of definitions and semantics, but it's based on the specific rules or premises of one discipline versus another. So, to answer my original question, there are numerous legitimate responses, depending on one's approach. All of the following may, therefore, be appropriate: "It doesn't matter." "Nothing exists." "Of course the tree and forest exist, dummy." "If God made the tree fall, it exists." "You do not exist." "The devil made me do it." ;-) -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Olhomorto@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:27 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gaze atthestars?(MostlyOT) In a message dated 8/20/2007 6:19:27 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, kimharch@cut.net writes: So, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does the forest exist? Did you mean does the tree exist? But either way, doesn't it have to exist because you just said it fell and you said it was in the forest, didn't you? (ha, ha). But I didn't mean to suggest that the "things" beyond the "barrier" do or don't exist. I was wondering what the Intelligent Designer could be thinking of if the Intelligent Designer creates things just for us but the things are beyond our ability to perceive? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by Cut.Net Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on Cut.Nets Content Service, visit http://www.cut.net ______________________________________________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/962 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 1:08 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/962 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 1:08 PM
Some apropos quotes. The first three are attributable to Carl Sagan, IIRC: "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition." "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?" "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." This one is a favorite: "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." - J. H. Holmes This one a core belief: "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we *can* suppose. " - J. B. S. Haldane And finally one that cuts right to the meat of the whole argument: "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened." - Douglas Adams On 8/20/07, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Well, I could have just as appropriately asked, Does the tree and/or forest exist?
Hi Chuck
As Douglas Adams, wrote "so long and thanks for all the fish"
Erik Some apropos quotes. The first three are attributable to Carl Sagan,
IIRC:
"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition."
"If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?"
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
This one is a favorite:
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." - J. H. Holmes
This one a core belief:
"My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we *can* suppose. " - J. B. S. Haldane
And finally one that cuts right to the meat of the whole argument:
"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened." - Douglas Adams
On 8/20/07, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Well, I could have just as appropriately asked, Does the tree and/or forest exist?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Nice quotes! I also remember appreciating the view of the universe in Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat, but unlike you, I can't remember the specific ones this early in the day. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+a.blanchard=ugs.utah.edu@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+a.blanchard=ugs.utah.edu@mailman.xmission .com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:54 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gazeatthestars?(MostlyOT) Some apropos quotes. The first three are attributable to Carl Sagan, IIRC: "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition." "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?" "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." This one is a favorite: "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." - J. H. Holmes This one a core belief: "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we *can* suppose. " - J. B. S. Haldane And finally one that cuts right to the meat of the whole argument: "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened." - Douglas Adams On 8/20/07, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Well, I could have just as appropriately asked, Does the tree and/or forest exist?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." "If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber." --Albert Einstein On 8/21/07, Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> wrote:
Nice quotes! I also remember appreciating the view of the universe in Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat, but unlike you, I can't remember the specific ones this early in the day.
"Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow." -Frank Zappa -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:54 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gazeatthestars?(MostlyOT) Some apropos quotes. The first three are attributable to Carl Sagan, IIRC: "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition." "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?" "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." This one is a favorite: "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." - J. H. Holmes This one a core belief: "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we *can* suppose. " - J. B. S. Haldane And finally one that cuts right to the meat of the whole argument: "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened." - Douglas Adams On 8/20/07, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Well, I could have just as appropriately asked, Does the tree and/or forest exist?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by Cut.Net Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on Cut.Nets Content Service, visit http://www.cut.net ______________________________________________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/962 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 1:08 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science." --Edwin Hubble "Progress is man's ability to complicate simplicity." --Thor Heyerdahl "Rules are made for people who aren't willing to make up their own." --Chuck Yeager "A scientist in his laboratory is not a mere technician: he is also a child confronting natural phenomena that impress him as though they were fairy tales." --Marie Curie
"A physicist is just an atom's way of looking at itself. " "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future. " "Einstein, stop telling God what to do!" --Niels Bohr
Great googlie-mooglie! -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+stargzr=alltel.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+stargzr=alltel.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:05 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gazeatthestars?(MostlyOT) "Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow." -Frank Zappa -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:54 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Are we human because we gazeatthestars?(MostlyOT) Some apropos quotes. The first three are attributable to Carl Sagan, IIRC: "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition." "If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?" "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." This one is a favorite: "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." - J. H. Holmes This one a core belief: "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we *can* suppose. " - J. B. S. Haldane And finally one that cuts right to the meat of the whole argument: "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened." - Douglas Adams On 8/20/07, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Well, I could have just as appropriately asked, Does the tree and/or forest exist?
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by Cut.Net Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on Cut.Nets Content Service, visit http://www.cut.net ______________________________________________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/962 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 1:08 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (7)
-
Ann Blanchard -
Chuck Hards -
erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net -
Julie Chorley -
Kim -
Olhomorto＠aol.com -
Taylor