RE: [Utah-astronomy] Missing mass (was: Wolf Creek and Meeting last night)
Michael, I think I remember something about this- nature truly does abhor a vacuum- so vacuums are unstable, and matter tends to 'pop' into existence on a quantum scale due to the vacuum energy- or something like that?
It had to do with entanglement (Einstein's 'spooky action at a distance'), virtual particles and all sorts of weird stuff like that. I'm hanging on for dear life as I read it and I probably get more wrong than I get right. But it's still fascinatingly peculiar stuff.
I asked Dr. Gondolo about entanglement actually contributing mass to the universe. Suppose you have two entangled particles and one ends up in the Andromeda Galaxy and the other here on earth. If both particles still are in their entangled state, you can act on the particle here on earth and instantly affect the other particle in the Andromeda galaxy. Experiments have already been conducted "teleporting" particles in this manner. The information necessary to perform the teleportation at one end or the other can only travel at the speed of light. The question is how are the particles linked and does this linkage contribute to the missing mass/energy. He didn't have any idea but had apparently had thought about the problem. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Michael Carnes Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:20 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Missing mass (was: Wolf Creek and Meeting lastnight)
Michael, I think I remember something about this- nature truly does abhor a vacuum- so vacuums are unstable, and matter tends to 'pop' into existence on a quantum scale due to the vacuum energy- or something like that?
It had to do with entanglement (Einstein's 'spooky action at a distance'), virtual particles and all sorts of weird stuff like that. I'm hanging on for dear life as I read it and I probably get more wrong than I get right. But it's still fascinatingly peculiar stuff. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Don J. Colton wrote:
I asked Dr. Gondolo about entanglement actually contributing mass to the universe. Suppose you have two entangled particles and one ends up in the Andromeda Galaxy and the other here on earth. If both particles still are in their entangled state, you can act on the particle here on earth and instantly affect the other particle in the Andromeda galaxy.
This whole "entanglement" idea continues to fascinate (and confuse) me. If one can act on a particle at one location and instantly have that action register at a very great distance are you not sending data at a superluminal velocity and therefore violating the "law" (300,000 km/hr, it's not just a good idea, it's the law!) If it could be done, acting on a particle "here" such that you turn it one way or another (read: 1 and 0) and you could send binary messages faster than the law will allow. "Fascinating..."
On the subject of confusion: I've heard a saying that anyone who claims to understand quantum mechanics is nuts. -- Joe
Apparently you need to know the states of both particles (or both sets of particles) in order to transmit information or teleport. You can do instant teleportation if you know this information but this information can only be communicated at the speed of light through some other means. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:36 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Entanglement (was Missing mass) Don J. Colton wrote:
I asked Dr. Gondolo about entanglement actually contributing mass to the universe. Suppose you have two entangled particles and one ends up in the Andromeda Galaxy and the other here on earth. If both particles still are in their entangled state, you can act on the particle here on earth and instantly affect the other particle in the Andromeda galaxy.
This whole "entanglement" idea continues to fascinate (and confuse) me. If one can act on a particle at one location and instantly have that action register at a very great distance are you not sending data at a superluminal velocity and therefore violating the "law" (300,000 km/hr, it's not just a good idea, it's the law!) If it could be done, acting on a particle "here" such that you turn it one way or another (read: 1 and 0) and you could send binary messages faster than the law will allow. "Fascinating..." _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
My understanding is if two particles are are entangled and if you do something to one of the pair it IMMEDIATELY (not speed-of-lightly) affects the other. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's my impression. This may be what Einstein meant when he referred to "spooky action at a distance." -- Joe
Could the entanglement actually be that the two particles are really the same particle? I once heard a theory that there is only one electron, and it is everywhere in the universe simultaneously, through a similar "spooky" action, or multi-dimensionality or something. Or maybe it was magic? ;) If the missing mass is really due to the universe having weird architecture at the sumatomic level, how does that affect the nuts-and-bolts of our cosmology? --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
My understanding is if two particles are are entangled and if you do something to one of the pair it IMMEDIATELY (not speed-of-lightly) affects the other. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's my impression. This may be what Einstein meant when he referred to "spooky action at a distance." -- Joe
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Chuck Hards wrote:
Could the entanglement actually be that the two particles are really the same particle? I once heard a theory that there is only one electron, and it is everywhere in the universe simultaneously, through a similar "spooky" action, or multi-dimensionality or something. Or maybe it was magic? ;)
Funny you should mention magic. I've often wondered that if there really is "real" magic it's nothing supernatural, but rather a perfectly natural ability that we muggles just have not yet developed. Patrick
I think it was Asimov who said that beings demonstrating suffiently advanced technology will appear as "magic" to less-advanced beings. But as far as an undeveloped physilogical ability, like telekinesis, telepathy, teleportation, or an electric-eel shock- Ever wonder what those two vertical lines under your nose are for....? --- Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net> wrote:
Funny you should mention magic. I've often wondered that if there really is "real" magic it's nothing supernatural, but rather a perfectly natural ability that we muggles just have not yet developed.
____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
You should read the book "I PSI" by Snavely S. Namron. It talks about this very topic. It is a privately published book, but I have one of only three copies that I know of. --- Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net> wrote:
Chuck Hards wrote:
Could the entanglement actually be that the two particles are really the same particle? I once heard a theory that there is only one electron, and it is everywhere in the universe simultaneously, through a similar "spooky" action, or multi-dimensionality or something. Or maybe it was magic? ;)
Funny you should mention magic. I've often wondered that if there really is "real" magic it's nothing supernatural, but rather a perfectly natural ability that we muggles just have not yet developed.
Patrick
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Brent, is "Snavely S. Namron" an anagram of a more mainstream scientist's name perhaps? ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Sort of. It is Steve McAllister, my cohort in Digistar. Snavely is the long form of his nickname - snave. Namron is his nom de plume backwards. The whole name is Norman S. Evans. Evans is, of course, snave backwards - which is how he got his nickname. Clear as mud, no? --- Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> wrote:
Brent, is "Snavely S. Namron" an anagram of a more mainstream scientist's name perhaps?
____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
BTW, It thought it was a very well done book, and an easy read. --- Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> wrote:
Brent, is "Snavely S. Namron" an anagram of a more mainstream scientist's name perhaps?
____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Good questions. If you find out the answers you will get two Nobel prizes. Fred Hoyle and others postulated that gravity and the other effects of matter propagate at the speed of light. In order for new matter, which he postulated was created in the vicinity of "near black holes," to interact with the universe it was necessary for the gravity from such matter to reach other objects in the universe. Is the curvature of space time produced by gravitons traveling at the speed of light or it is a property of matter that travels instantaneously? I think most physicists think that gravity travels at the speed of light, but are there any experiments that confirm this? -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:39 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Entanglement (was Missing mass) Could the entanglement actually be that the two particles are really the same particle? I once heard a theory that there is only one electron, and it is everywhere in the universe simultaneously, through a similar "spooky" action, or multi-dimensionality or something. Or maybe it was magic? ;) If the missing mass is really due to the universe having weird architecture at the sumatomic level, how does that affect the nuts-and-bolts of our cosmology? --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
My understanding is if two particles are are entangled and if you do something to one of the pair it IMMEDIATELY (not speed-of-lightly) affects the other. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's my impression. This may be what Einstein meant when he referred to "spooky action at a distance." -- Joe
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (6)
-
Brent Watson -
Chuck Hards -
Don J. Colton -
Joe Bauman -
Michael Carnes -
Patrick Wiggins