Today's NASA Briefing
Two things of note out of today's briefing. 1) The briefer noted they have received 132 reports of found debris in CA, 130 in AZ and 9 in NM but that none had been confirmed. He made no mention of Utah. 2) The picture mentioned in the Aviation Week article was shown. Some of the media has been playing it up as being "hi resolution". Don't know that I'd call it hi-res but it does show the shape of the orbiter and maybe there's "something" with the left wing but the image is so pixcelated it's hard to say for sure. No doubt the picture will be all over the TV tonight.
I've got it on now too. Pretty fuzzy picture, compared with what Aviation and Space Technology said -- Thanks, jb Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
Is this network TV, or a Website, Joe? Chuck --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I've got it on now too. Pretty fuzzy picture, compared with what Aviation and Space Technology said -- Thanks, jb
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On the web, thanks, Joe Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
PS: Try this site: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
Thanks, Joe. That's the same image I saw on network TV news tonight, but the reporter said that there had been a sharper one shown to the press earlier, then replaced with this one. The flares sure look to me like the location of the foam strike on launch. Occam's Razor, perhaps? Chuck --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
PS: Try this site: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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During the briefing one of the reporters said something like "I'm assuming that's a negative image..." Looks more like an IR image to me. Anyone heard anything about that in the media this evening? Patrick
Patrick, It looks like a white light negative image to me. Certainly, it is a negative image since the bright parts are dark, and I believe it to be a white light image because it does not show the plasma as much as you would think. That stuff is HOT. Brent --- Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net> wrote:
During the briefing one of the reporters said something like "I'm assuming that's a negative image..." Looks more like an IR image to me.
Anyone heard anything about that in the media this evening?
Patrick
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Brent Watson wrote:
Patrick,
It looks like a white light negative image to me. Certainly, it is a negative image since the bright parts are dark, and I believe it to be a white light image because it does not show the plasma as much as you would think. That stuff is HOT.
Sounds reasonable. Thanks for setting me straight. Patrick
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
You don't need to add mass via water or ice. People (engineers included) seem to forget that the shuttle was probably close to trans-sonic when the foam broke loose. It carried incredible energy moving that fast. I have no credibility problems with plain old foam damaging tiles or structure. C. --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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Doesn't the fact that the foam panel and the shuttle are travelling in the same direction at the time of impact reduce the force at time of collision? Roen Hale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
You don't need to add mass via water or ice. People (engineers included) seem to forget that the shuttle was probably close to trans-sonic when the foam broke loose. It carried incredible energy moving that fast. I have no credibility problems with plain old foam damaging tiles or structure.
C.
--- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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Yes, but not enough to make a difference. The foam has much higher wind resistance and gets thrown back violently. Recall from the frame-by-frame shots that the foam disintegrates into a white cloud on impact; it takes a fair amount of energy to do that. C. --- Roen Hale <roen@simsteel.com> wrote:
Doesn't the fact that the foam panel and the shuttle are travelling in the same direction at the time of impact reduce the force at time of collision? Roen Hale
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
You don't need to add mass via water or ice. People (engineers included) seem to forget that the shuttle was probably close to trans-sonic when the foam broke loose. It carried incredible energy moving that fast. I have no credibility problems with plain old foam damaging tiles or structure.
C.
--- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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Chuck -- YOU BETTER NOT QUIT making comments! They are very much appreciated. Open disagreement is why we have email discussion groups. If we simply wanted to read rather than discuss, we'd subscribe to the paper and not an astronomy email list. The advantage of this forum is its give and take. It's not only a bulletin board telling you that a certain star is going supernova -- it is that, but also a chance to hash things out, have a great big ol' donnybrook of a disagreement once in a while, maybe get to the truth, and still remain friends. I really value your thoughts. I don't want to tiptoe around and never get into controversies -- there's too much of that in my professional life. It is a refreshing to read a variety of ideas, strongly presented. If you care enough to comment with a bit of heat, all the better. So don't you dare drop out. -- Joe
Whoops, that previous heading should have been Chuck Hards -- sorry. jb
According to this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2730981.stm the foam hit the shuttle's wing at 750 ft/sec (228 m/s). If you do the math that's 511 miles/hour ((750 ft/ s * 3600 s/h) / 5280 ft/mi). Even a glancing blow to the wing at that speed it would seem logical that some damage may occur. Yes, it did reduce the force of the impact because the shuttle is going somewhere around 2500 mi/hr at 80 seconds into the flight. At that speed the shuttle was going supersonic, not trans-sonic. Ken -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Roen Hale Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:20 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing Doesn't the fact that the foam panel and the shuttle are travelling in the same direction at the time of impact reduce the force at time of collision? Roen Hale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
You don't need to add mass via water or ice. People (engineers included) seem to forget that the shuttle was probably close to trans-sonic when the foam broke loose. It carried incredible energy moving that fast. I have no credibility problems with plain old foam damaging tiles or structure.
C.
--- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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Good work, Ken. When I'm here at work I never have time to do the math. I really feel that Occam's Razor is in play here. NASA keeps talking about a "missing link", but it sure looks to me like the root cause was the foam strike. Go hit something with a piece of foam, hard enough to disintegrate the foam into a bazillion pieces, I'll bet you could do some serious damage. C. --- Ken Warner <KillerKen@killerken.com> wrote:
According to this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2730981.stm
the foam hit the shuttle's wing at 750 ft/sec (228 m/s). If you do the math that's 511 miles/hour ((750 ft/ s * 3600 s/h) / 5280 ft/mi). Even a glancing blow to the wing at that speed it would seem logical that some damage may occur. Yes, it did reduce the force of the impact because the shuttle is going somewhere around 2500 mi/hr at 80 seconds into the flight. At that speed the shuttle was going supersonic, not trans-sonic.
Ken
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Roen Hale Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:20 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
Doesn't the fact that the foam panel and the shuttle are travelling in the same direction at the time of impact reduce the force at time of collision? Roen Hale
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
You don't need to add mass via water or ice. People (engineers included) seem to forget that the shuttle was probably close to trans-sonic when the foam broke loose. It carried incredible energy moving that fast. I have no credibility problems with plain old foam damaging tiles or structure.
C.
--- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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Haven't we all seen those newsreel photos of drinking straws pushed through tree-trunks by tornados? And the tornado speed is less than half of the foam speed... C.
Thanks much Chuck & Ken for your prompt response to my question on the foam impact. This has been on my mind since early press conferences had somewhat downplayed this event as a major contributing factor . Roen Hale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Warner" <KillerKen@killerken.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
According to this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2730981.stm the foam hit the shuttle's wing at 750 ft/sec (228 m/s). If you do the math that's 511 miles/hour ((750 ft/ s * 3600 s/h) / 5280 ft/mi). Even a glancing blow to the wing at that speed it would seem logical that some damage may occur. Yes, it did reduce the force of the impact because the shuttle is going somewhere around 2500 mi/hr at 80 seconds into the flight. At that speed the shuttle was going supersonic, not trans-sonic.
Ken
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Roen Hale Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:20 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
Doesn't the fact that the foam panel and the shuttle are travelling in the same direction at the time of impact reduce the force at time of collision? Roen Hale
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Today's NASA Briefing
You don't need to add mass via water or ice. People (engineers included) seem to forget that the shuttle was probably close to trans-sonic when the foam broke loose. It carried incredible energy moving that fast. I have no credibility problems with plain old foam damaging tiles or structure.
C.
--- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
I agree. What if enough rainwater soaked into the foam that when it froze because of the liquid hydrogen, it was much heavier and much more solid than 2 1/2 pounds of foam insulation? -- Joe
Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
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Remember that it's all speculation for now. Might be the foam, might not. NASA has their own protocols for accident investigation, these must be left to run their course for now. There are those whom trust NASA completely; while I do not feel that there is any kind of conspiracy afoot to conceal the truth, I am one of those people who question all authority- I have been lied-to and treated badly by authority, more often than dealt with honestly and fairly. I have never "towed the line", "marched in rank", I'm not a good little joiner, wannabe, whatever, especially when I see my taxes wasted, misspent & squandered. Wait and see what authority comes up with first, then we can pass judgement. C. --- Roen Hale <roen@simsteel.com> wrote:
Thanks much Chuck & Ken for your prompt response to my question on the foam impact. This has been on my mind since early press conferences had somewhat downplayed this event as a major contributing factor . Roen Hale
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participants (6)
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Brent Watson -
Chuck Hards -
Joe Bauman -
Ken Warner -
Patrick Wiggins -
Roen Hale