Chuck, You had mentioned that Clarke Planetarium had issues with SLAS meeting there. I am unfamiliar with the reasons you had mentioned. Can you shed some more light on this? Thanks, Jon
On 11/13/11, stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> wrote:
Chuck, You had mentioned that Clarke Planetarium had issues with SLAS meeting there. I am unfamiliar with the reasons you had mentioned. Can you shed some more light on this?
Hi Jon, actually, Siegfried is 100% right. At this point, it's water under the bridge and any discussion doesn't belong in a public forum. Perhaps he or some other board member or long-time clubber familiar with the story can fill you in off-list. I am sorry I dredged it up; I just long for the nostalgic days of yore. Consider it a character flaw on my part. Thanks for understanding. C.
Any past issues are past and probably vary depending on who you talk to. I don't think the Clark Planetarium has a room where we could meet, end of story, and parking would be a problem.
The Museum of Natural History would offer the positive aspects of the Hansen Planetarium without, hopefully the drawbacks. I do wonder if SLAS would have to pay a fee to meet at the Museum, however. BTW, I watched a Vietnam documentary on the history channel. Infantrymen in WWII saw on average 10 days/year of combat, Vietnam Infantrymen averaged over 200 and 2/3's of those soldiers were drafted. On 11/13/11, stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> wrote:
Chuck, You had mentioned that Clarke Planetarium had issues with SLAS meeting there. I am unfamiliar with the reasons you had mentioned. Can you shed some more light on this?
Hi Jon, actually, Siegfried is 100% right. At this point, it's water under the bridge and any discussion doesn't belong in a public forum.
Perhaps he or some other board member or long-time clubber familiar with the story can fill you in off-list.
I am sorry I dredged it up; I just long for the nostalgic days of yore. Consider it a character flaw on my part.
Thanks for understanding.
C.
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Having seen first hand one of the rooms under consideration for meetings I can tell you it would simply be an awesome place for meetings. The new museum is at the top of Walkera way. Drive right straight up, no turns, very little cross traffic. Very abundant parking, with plenty of spots for those with disabilities. The room we looked at on our early tour rents for a good chunk of change. I think it the one on their website that lists at $1,295.00 per night. This of course would only be possible if we can work out arrangements for trades with the club supporting the museum with outreach events. Talks will be continuing. I personally will do all I can to support the museum with astronomy events. By the way, the museum opens to the public on Friday morning at 10:00 AM. I'll be there. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:41:31 -0700 From: erikhansen@thebluezone.net To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Any past issues are past and probably vary depending on who you talk to. I don't think the Clark Planetarium has a room where we could meet, end of story, and parking would be a problem.
The Museum of Natural History would offer the positive aspects of the Hansen Planetarium without, hopefully the drawbacks. I do wonder if SLAS would have to pay a fee to meet at the Museum, however.
BTW, I watched a Vietnam documentary on the history channel. Infantrymen in WWII saw on average 10 days/year of combat, Vietnam Infantrymen averaged over 200 and 2/3's of those soldiers were drafted.
On 11/13/11, stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> wrote:
Chuck, You had mentioned that Clarke Planetarium had issues with SLAS meeting there. I am unfamiliar with the reasons you had mentioned. Can you shed some more light on this?
Hi Jon, actually, Siegfried is 100% right. At this point, it's water under the bridge and any discussion doesn't belong in a public forum.
Perhaps he or some other board member or long-time clubber familiar with the story can fill you in off-list.
I am sorry I dredged it up; I just long for the nostalgic days of yore. Consider it a character flaw on my part.
Thanks for understanding.
C.
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Correction......Wakara Way.
From: iotacass1@hotmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:14:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Having seen first hand one of the rooms under consideration for meetings I can tell you it would simply be an awesome place for meetings. The new museum is at the top of Walkera way. Drive right straight up, no turns, very little cross traffic. Very abundant parking, with plenty of spots for those with disabilities. The room we looked at on our early tour rents for a good chunk of change. I think it the one on their website that lists at $1,295.00 per night. This of course would only be possible if we can work out arrangements for trades with the club supporting the museum with outreach events. Talks will be continuing. I personally will do all I can to support the museum with astronomy events. By the way, the museum opens to the public on Friday morning at 10:00 AM. I'll be there. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:41:31 -0700 From: erikhansen@thebluezone.net To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Any past issues are past and probably vary depending on who you talk to. I don't think the Clark Planetarium has a room where we could meet, end of story, and parking would be a problem.
The Museum of Natural History would offer the positive aspects of the Hansen Planetarium without, hopefully the drawbacks. I do wonder if SLAS would have to pay a fee to meet at the Museum, however.
BTW, I watched a Vietnam documentary on the history channel. Infantrymen in WWII saw on average 10 days/year of combat, Vietnam Infantrymen averaged over 200 and 2/3's of those soldiers were drafted.
On 11/13/11, stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> wrote:
Chuck, You had mentioned that Clarke Planetarium had issues with SLAS meeting there. I am unfamiliar with the reasons you had mentioned. Can you shed some more light on this?
Hi Jon, actually, Siegfried is 100% right. At this point, it's water under the bridge and any discussion doesn't belong in a public forum.
Perhaps he or some other board member or long-time clubber familiar with the story can fill you in off-list.
I am sorry I dredged it up; I just long for the nostalgic days of yore. Consider it a character flaw on my part.
Thanks for understanding.
C.
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Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing. Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach. They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government. Period. I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs. Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist. I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested. Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee. OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly. Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive. Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation. Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow! I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue. Erik Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
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I'm sure it was a Typo but the listed cost on the website is $1,295.00 per night. Cheap if you need a nice place to get married. Not what we have in mind. So far no one has mentioned any price to rent it to SLAS that I am aware of. I only mentioned what is on their website. We as a club most likely would vote against any charge. But again, we are still at baby step one. So far everyone we have talked to seems to "want us there". Hard to imagine. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:07:14 -0700 From: erikhansen@thebluezone.net To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
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Isn't it $1200 a night? I hate this stupid phone, lol! On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
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Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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A couple of other questions. If we get a room at the museum I assume then another outreach has to be given up. Is that correct? Which outreach would be removed? Wheeler Farms? A Harmon's each month? Does the UofU require an outreach for using their facility? I'm not trying to be negative but I am just curious and think these questions have to be answered is all. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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-- Jay Eads
Jay, I don't think so. We have no plans to give up any events. We have so far only been talking to members and the museum about solar parties. These would be in addition to the regular new moon star parties that are already being planned in 2012. Again, all your questions are very valid and as things shake out we will see what the museum asks of us. So far it appears they will be very pleased to have us and seem eager to work with us. Evening "star parties" seem unlikely as the museum closes at 5:00 PM. They will be open one night per week till 9:00 PM. Things may change as things smooth out for the museum. There is a spot in the outside deck for a telescope pier. I would think with a Friday opening that astronomy is the last thing on their mind. Once the dust settles we will get busy working out the kinks. We have a new board ready to work at it. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:57:37 -0700 From: jayleads@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
A couple of other questions. If we get a room at the museum I assume then another outreach has to be given up. Is that correct? Which outreach would be removed? Wheeler Farms? A Harmon's each month? Does the UofU require an outreach for using their facility? I'm not trying to be negative but I am just curious and think these questions have to be answered is all.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Since this thread has evolved away from the planetarium and toward the museum I've changed the subject line. Again I'd like to stress that all of this talk of moving to the museum is very premature. As Steve pointed out we are hearing from the museum that they are eager to work with us. But then some will remember we heard similar things from This Is the Place. While I put far more credence in what I'm hearing from the museum (because I know and have worked with them) as far as I know there has been no offer to host our meetings there. During the tour the SLAS board was taken on recently we were shown a room that *could* be used for meetings on Wednesdays until 9:00 p.m. The price, IIRC, was $30 but they seemed to think that could be worked out in trade for helping them with occasional events. But I do not remember anyone from the museum asking us to move our meetings there. Their big thing seemed to be Sun related events like Sun parties. SLAS also heard from them this week confirming that they really want us to hold the Venus Transit Watch there next June. So, getting back to the poll being taken asking preferences between Tuesdays and Wednesdays. I suppose the poll could be seen as facilitating an eventual move should it ever happen sometime down the road (did I put enough qualifiers in there? <g> ). But I see it more as giving folks a chance to say which night works best for them regardless of where the meetings will be held. patrick BTW, there is a very extensive piece on the museum with lots of pictures in today's Tribune. On 13 Nov 2011, at 19:08, Steve Fisher wrote:
Jay, I don't think so. We have no plans to give up any events. We have so far only been talking to members and the museum about solar parties. These would be in addition to the regular new moon star parties that are already being planned in 2012. Again, all your questions are very valid and as things shake out we will see what the museum asks of us. So far it appears they will be very pleased to have us and seem eager to work with us. Evening "star parties" seem unlikely as the museum closes at 5:00 PM. They will be open one night per week till 9:00 PM. Things may change as things smooth out for the museum. There is a spot in the outside deck for a telescope pier. I would think with a Friday opening that astronomy is the last thing on their mind. Once the dust settles we will get busy working out the kinks. We have a new board ready to work at it. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:57:37 -0700 From: jayleads@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
A couple of other questions. If we get a room at the museum I assume then another outreach has to be given up. Is that correct? Which outreach would be removed? Wheeler Farms? A Harmon's each month? Does the UofU require an outreach for using their facility? I'm not trying to be negative but I am just curious and think these questions have to be answered is all.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
Yea, more clarification. Thanks Patrick. Steve
From: paw@wirelessbeehive.com Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:41:11 -0700 To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and Museum
Since this thread has evolved away from the planetarium and toward the museum I've changed the subject line.
Again I'd like to stress that all of this talk of moving to the museum is very premature. As Steve pointed out we are hearing from the museum that they are eager to work with us. But then some will remember we heard similar things from This Is the Place.
While I put far more credence in what I'm hearing from the museum (because I know and have worked with them) as far as I know there has been no offer to host our meetings there.
During the tour the SLAS board was taken on recently we were shown a room that *could* be used for meetings on Wednesdays until 9:00 p.m. The price, IIRC, was $30 but they seemed to think that could be worked out in trade for helping them with occasional events.
But I do not remember anyone from the museum asking us to move our meetings there. Their big thing seemed to be Sun related events like Sun parties. SLAS also heard from them this week confirming that they really want us to hold the Venus Transit Watch there next June.
So, getting back to the poll being taken asking preferences between Tuesdays and Wednesdays. I suppose the poll could be seen as facilitating an eventual move should it ever happen sometime down the road (did I put enough qualifiers in there? <g> ). But I see it more as giving folks a chance to say which night works best for them regardless of where the meetings will be held.
patrick
BTW, there is a very extensive piece on the museum with lots of pictures in today's Tribune.
On 13 Nov 2011, at 19:08, Steve Fisher wrote:
Jay, I don't think so. We have no plans to give up any events. We have so far only been talking to members and the museum about solar parties. These would be in addition to the regular new moon star parties that are already being planned in 2012. Again, all your questions are very valid and as things shake out we will see what the museum asks of us. So far it appears they will be very pleased to have us and seem eager to work with us. Evening "star parties" seem unlikely as the museum closes at 5:00 PM. They will be open one night per week till 9:00 PM. Things may change as things smooth out for the museum. There is a spot in the outside deck for a telescope pier. I would think with a Friday opening that astronomy is the last thing on their mind. Once the dust settles we will get busy working out the kinks. We have a new board ready to work at it. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:57:37 -0700 From: jayleads@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
A couple of other questions. If we get a room at the museum I assume then another outreach has to be given up. Is that correct? Which outreach would be removed? Wheeler Farms? A Harmon's each month? Does the UofU require an outreach for using their facility? I'm not trying to be negative but I am just curious and think these questions have to be answered is all.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Steve,
I noticed on their website that the are offering sleep overs, so I would think StarParty requests are a real possibility. SLAS should find out more before we reject or accept anything. Erik
Jay, I don't think so. We have no plans to give up any events. We have so far only been talking to members and the museum about solar parties. These would be in addition to the regular new moon star parties that are already being planned in 2012. Again, all your questions are very valid and as things shake out we will see what the museum asks of us. So far it appears they will be very pleased to have us and seem eager to work with us. Evening "star parties" seem unlikely as the museum closes at 5:00 PM. They will be open one night per week till 9:00 PM. Things may change as things smooth out for the museum. There is a spot in the outside deck for a telescope pier. I would think with a Friday opening that astronomy is the last thing on their mind. Once the dust settles we will get busy working out the kinks. We have a new board ready to work at it. Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:57:37 -0700 From: jayleads@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
A couple of other questions. If we get a room at the museum I assume then another outreach has to be given up. Is that correct? Which outreach would be removed? Wheeler Farms? A Harmon's each month? Does the UofU require an outreach for using their facility? I'm not trying to be negative but I am just curious and think these questions have to be answered is all.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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Jay,
I think SLAS meeting at the U of U, fulfills some of their outreach goals. They have required little from SLAS. I would think SLAS would have a hard time doing any more public outreach, so yes it seems something would have to removed. Erik A couple of other questions. If we get a room at the museum I assume then
another outreach has to be given up. Is that correct? Which outreach would be removed? Wheeler Farms? A Harmon's each month? Does the UofU require an outreach for using their facility? I'm not trying to be negative but I am just curious and think these questions have to be answered is all.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 14 Nov 2011, at 10:00, erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net wrote:
I think SLAS meeting at the U of U, fulfills some of their outreach goals. They have required little from SLAS. I would think SLAS would have a hard time doing any more public outreach, so yes it seems something would have to removed.
This has been discussed at a couple of board meetings. I don't think anyone (at least no one at the meetings) has suggested adding to or subtracting from the schedule to accommodate events at the museum. What has been discussed is the possibility of moving venues on some events sometime in the future. Note that the 2012 public star and Sun party schedule is to be finalized at tonight's SLAS meeting. The draft that will be presented only mentions the museum once and that's for the Venus transit. So barring a ground swell of support for radically changing the schedule at the meeting (unlikely IMHO) if SLAS does start doing programs at the museum on a regular and scheduled basis it wouldn't be until the 2013 season. This, of course, does not rule out individual members volunteering to help out at museum events much as they do now for things like the Snowbird star parties. I for one favor that. Much better for volunteers to do a few impromptu events there to check out the site before the club officially commits to any future events (remember the This Is the Place debacle?). See y'all at the meeting tonight! patrick
It seems to have worked so far, SLAS has never paid a venue to hold their general meetings.
Good luck with that philosophy, Erik. I think you'll have some debating
to do to sell it. On Nov 13, 2011 6:08 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
Chuck,
I would not support going to the Museum if it came at a cost. $12,000 a night, wow!
I agree SLAS's community programs speak for themselves and should be adequate "service" for access to any venue.
Erik
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to
the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
I feel like slashing my wrists! ;)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:58:48 -0700 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Ya think it will help? On Nov 13, 2011 6:15 PM, "Steve Fisher" <iotacass1@hotmail.com> wrote:
I feel like slashing my wrists! ;)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:58:48 -0700 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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How much to we pay to use the sites at the UofU? On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Ya think it will help? On Nov 13, 2011 6:15 PM, "Steve Fisher" <iotacass1@hotmail.com> wrote:
I feel like slashing my wrists! ;)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:58:48 -0700 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads
Jay, We don't pay a red cent. We fill out an application each semester and when approved, we have rights to use the facilities for our meetings. Thanks Rodger -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jay Eads Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 6:44 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium How much to we pay to use the sites at the UofU? On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Ya think it will help? On Nov 13, 2011 6:15 PM, "Steve Fisher" <iotacass1@hotmail.com> wrote:
I feel like slashing my wrists! ;)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:58:48 -0700 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Sorry 'bout that. I just got a little depressed. I'm over it.Jay, we do not pay for rooms. I cannot imagine a SLAS board or member ever agreeing to pay for a meeting room.Steve
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:43:42 -0700 From: jayleads@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
How much to we pay to use the sites at the UofU?
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Ya think it will help? On Nov 13, 2011 6:15 PM, "Steve Fisher" <iotacass1@hotmail.com> wrote:
I feel like slashing my wrists! ;)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:58:48 -0700 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS and CLarke Planetrium
Well, I'm a thorn in the side of SLAS, and no doubt when it comes to the historical record, but with all due respect to Erik and Steve, despite their "politically correct" slants on the situation, and while their arguments are fundamentally sound in light of today's situation, it's a truly sad thing.
Planetariums and museums are no longer places of learning and magnets for community outreach.
They are now profit centers and exist to generate revenue for local government.
Period.
I come from a time when a science or literary club could book a meeting at the library, planetarium, or museum at no charge. Those institutions existed for the benefit of the members of the community. They were subsidized with public money, yet did generate a portion of their own operating costs, and were open to all, at no charge. Ony the "star show" at Hansen was a paid ticket required for admission. Classrooms (and even the entire second floor), were freebies for science (and science-fiction, no lie!) clubs.
Today the situation is different. Such places exist ONLY so long as they turn a profit. To do so, their focus is now on entertainment instead of learning and community benefit. Even the profits of those institutions don't go primarily to the communities in which they exist.
I recall SLAS meetings at Hansen Planetarium in the "Star Chamber", or main theater, at no charge to SLAS. Planetarium staff were even available to help and operate the projector if requested.
Those days are long gone. Nobody is getting into any museum or planetarium room without paying an exhorbitant fee.
OK, that's the way things are in today's world. I'll even admit that my thinking isn't practical in today's world. I would, however, stipulate that today's world isn't worth a damn when compared to how things used to be. We get the government (and public institutions) that we deserve. We deserve this, ostensibly.
Even SLAS (and many other clubs across the country) have had to morph into frighteningly large beaurocracies to deal with society as it now exists. There must be at least 2 dozen leadership positions and/or committees to deal with the various avenues that society and government demand such organizations negotiate, just to survive.
Give those people a round of applause if you enjoy the fruits of their labor. None are paid, and it's a damn shame that it's even necessary just for a group of like-minded astronomy enthusiasts to gather in a public place and mutually enjoy something worthwhile. But they do it out of love of the hobby, and realize that a club either adapts, or dies. Darwinism works even in this weird situation.
Ah, the good old days. I miss them. I miss them a lot.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
participants (7)
-
Chuck Hards -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Jay Eads -
Patrick Wiggins -
Rodger C. Fry -
Steve Fisher -
stormcrow60＠xmission.com