Hi Chuck, if by "make a sound" you mean send out sound waves, then yes, the tree that falls in the forest with nobody around to hear it does make a sound. The question about the universe's existance, or not, if there were no life to appreciate it is an interesting one. It can be compared to asking if the universe exists after one's own death. Woody Alien seems to take the position that it won't, in Hannah and Her Sisters when he thinks he's dying and imagines that the places he loves (and everything else, of course) will no longer exist. These are points worth thinking about. My feeling is that the universe didn't come into existence just for my benefit. It will continue after I'm gone, just as Woody's favorite places will after he dies. The universe exists whether or not anyone observes it. The sound and light vibrations will be the same. The light of the early universe began propagating before any life came along to see it; we can detect it today but that doesn't mean it was not there at the time of the Big Bang. -- Joe ------------------------------ On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 1:20 PM MDT Chuck Hards wrote:
The digital camera is especially bad at recording what the eye sees, much more so that emulsion films, IMO. I constantly see over-saturated photos with color so vibrant that it doesn't even look real. Of course much of this is from over-zealous post-processing.
I've taken digital pictures of parts of my garden, and soil that is dark brown to the eye is white or grey to the camera even without post-exposure processing, and IR & UV filters employed. It's picking-up wavelengths that we don't even see.
I think this is a big reason why photographers fancy themselves "artists" for the most part, rather than "historians" or "journalists". Images today aren't faithfully representative of what was really there, they are what the imager can do with the data he/she took.
And ultimately it all gets back to the universe only really existing in the minds of those who observe it, interact with it.
If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around, does it make a sound? If there is no-one in the universe to wonder at it all, and their place in it, does it even exist? _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Hi Joe, that's an old argument, I hope you didn't post it for my benefit alone. I understand the point of view. But the older I get, the less satisfying it is. To me, the correct answer to the question of 'is there a sound when a tree falls with no-one to hear it', or 'is there a universe if there is no life in it', is: *It doesn't matter*. The question, ultimately, isn't worth asking. It's just words with no value. A universe of particles and fields governed by a set of physical laws, with no intelligence in it, only matters to certain university faculty members who need a paycheck from the idea. And obviously they would exist in a different universe. I'm one of those who is pretty sure that this universe ends when I die. At least as far as I'm concerned. If I'm wrong, then I'll be pleasantly surprised, won't I? And if there is a continuation after this life, it is bound to be so different and disconnected from this plane and it's experiences, that it isn't worth speculating about. Such musings are bandied-about so we can sleep better at night. More words with no intrinsic value. Your mileage may vary. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Chuck, if by "make a sound" you mean send out sound waves, then yes, the tree that falls in the forest with nobody around to hear it does make a sound. The question about the universe's existance, or not, if there were no life to appreciate it is an interesting one. It can be compared to asking if the universe exists after one's own death. Woody Alien seems to take the position that it won't, in Hannah and Her Sisters when he thinks he's dying and imagines that the places he loves (and everything else, of course) will no longer exist. These are points worth thinking about. My feeling is that the universe didn't come into existence just for my benefit. It will continue after I'm gone, just as Woody's favorite places will after he dies. The universe exists whether or not anyone observes it. The sound and light vibrations will be the same. The light of the early universe began propagating before any life came along to see it; we can detect it today but that doesn't mean it was not there at the time of the Big Bang.
participants (2)
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Chuck Hards -
Joe Bauman