The looney right brought it up. --- diveboss@xmission.com wrote: From: diveboss@xmission.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Admin Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:00:18 -0700 The looney left has spoken. ;) Next!
Hi Diveboss... You mention the federal government is supposed to defend and protect it's citizens. You go on to say that the federal government is not responsible to rebuild low lying coastal cities. So... helping citizens of the United States of America who's lives have been destroyed by a natural calamity is not the responsibilty of the federal government? Your thinking is the typical right wing thinking and it is extremely hypocritical. For, if it were your home that was destroyed, you would be screaming for some kind of federal help. You mention the "framers"... I suppose you mean the true American patriots who designed and wrote the Constitution. I believe these same "framers" would roll over in their graves if they knew what the Bush admin has done to our most precious docmument. Please do not bring up the Constitution to validate your point, while at the same time you conveniently forget the crimes against the Constitution that your favorite president has committed. In the real world, you cannot pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you are willing to protect. And neither can the war veterans pick and choose which freedoms they will fight to preserve. And the EPA is not essential? Why they only protect us from industrial poisons, and oversee significant bills such as the clean air and clean water acts. And let us not forget... and all right wingers seem to not want to mention this... but the greatest attack on American soil occurred during a republican presidential watch. And don't tell me it was Clinton's fault. When Clinton launched missles at Al Queida bases in Afghanistan in the 90's, the republicans claimed Clinton was attempting to divert attention from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. So, in reality, if the republicans were not hounding Clinton for spurious reasons while in office, maybe Clinton could have done more about Al Queida. As it were, he was fighting for his political life and he turned over a lot of intelligence to the Bushies and recommended they make going after Al Queida a priority. But Bush sat on the intelligence and allowed 911 to happen. Those are the facts. And please do not tell me that private enterprise will lead the way in saving our civilization. Where are they? In your closet? Under your bed? Sure... they have brought us all kinds of "cool" electronic gadgets and conveniences in our lives. But where are they when it comes to global warming, energy efficiency, energy independence and actually providing well paying jobs for our citizens? Again... if we solve the major problems staring us in the face, it will be government intitiatives and mandates that will accomplish this. Private interests are only concerned with their stock holders and profits, not the well being of our citizens. Now, I won't take up anymore of this blog space by debating political issues. I just had to say something, because we live in Utah. And Utahn's cannot grasp the fact the republicans got their asses kicked in the last election. The American people are tired of Reaganomics and abuses of our Constitution. For thirty years we have seen unfettered excess by our corporate overlords. The American people have spoken! No more right wing policies! Thanks again for your time.
Jon p.s. No, this is not Rocky, but I will say hello to him if I see him.
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Ah, nothing like politics (which is just another form of religion) to make enemies of friends! Let's all take a deep breath and relax. I think it's OK to debate the merits or demerits of the role of government and/or political figures regarding science and science funding, but probably a good idea to omit the name calling and labels (e.g., right-wingnuts, leftist-loonies, etc.). I've been guilty of waxing political, and there's surely a lot of emotion and strong feelings on both sides. For those that want to keep the discussion (and it should be a CIVIL discussion, sticking to facts and on-topic with SCIENCE) going, keep the "OT:" in the subject line so those that want to bow out can just delete them if they are only interested in utah-astronomy related posts. Carry on...
It seems pretty clear to me that without government support (National Science Foundation (NSF) grants are funded to a large extent by taxes, are they not?), our hobby would be without ANY of the large observatories, since the Market (aside from amateurs wanting to look and take pretty pictures) doesn't have any commercial incentive to fund astronomical or cosmological research. Am I wrong? Likewise, would colleges even offer degrees in Astronomy if government funding of science education were to go away?
I hadn't intended to respond to any more of this nonsense, but I guess I'll have to take credit for starting it all with the statement that I made on Sunday regarding the Bush administration's lack of leadership in science and technology (though I didn’t intend any offense). Whether you agree with that opinion or not, at least my comment had a basis in science and astronomy and was generally, therefore, on-topic. Beginning with the first response to that post, however, this thread has been mostly a nasty "us-versus-them" (as Dave Bennett accurately described it) off-topic dispute. I agree with Jim Cobb: end this now. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of zaurak@digis.net Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Admin The looney right brought it up. --- diveboss@xmission.com wrote: From: diveboss@xmission.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Admin Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:00:18 -0700 The looney left has spoken. ;) Next! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.1/1781 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 8:59 AM
participants (3)
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Kim -
Richard Tenney -
zaurak@digis.net