Hi Don, I do agree that we need to keep open minds in regards to scientific theory... even those theories that appear very solid. I admit I did not view any of the videos presented on the website. But I did read what was available. The fact that subduction was not even mentioned was enough for me to dismiss this guy out of hand. Viewing his videos was just a waste of time and I had already given him enough time reading his absurdities. I also found it ironic that this guy appears to take jabs and make petty offensive statements regarding established scientific theory. It almost appears he has a chip on his shoulder. I mean anyone can make up half cocked theories and present them as valid hypothesis. Charts and graphs and videos can be just as much fluff as much as it can also be defining. Jon Jon, I agree that the guy is probably "out to lunch", but I was at a meeting in the late sixties where geologists heckled the speaker who was advocating plate tectonics. We need to make sure we are open minded to all criticisms of current dogma. In the past many prominent scientists, such as Rutherford, have suppressed new ideas that didn't fit their paradigm ("The energy produced by the atom is a very poor kind of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine." Ernst Rutherford).
He did seem to think if he could animate it with a computer the truth would be self evident. Does anyone else wonder what scientists did before computers, a lot of wasted time hand computing mathematics no doubt. Sorry, Fletch, BTW I do not think math is really a waste of time in school at least.
Hi Don,
I do agree that we need to keep open minds in regards to scientific theory... even those theories that appear very solid. I admit I did not view any of the videos presented on the website. But I did read what was available. The fact that subduction was not even mentioned was enough for me to dismiss this guy out of hand. Viewing his videos was just a waste of time and I had already given him enough time reading his absurdities. I also found it ironic that this guy appears to take jabs and make petty offensive statements regarding established scientific theory. It almost appears he has a chip on his shoulder. I mean anyone can make up half cocked theories and present them as valid hypothesis. Charts and graphs and videos can be just as much fluff as much as it can also be defining.
Jon
Jon,
I agree that the guy is probably "out to lunch", but I was at a meeting in the late sixties where geologists heckled the speaker who was advocating plate tectonics. We need to make sure we are open minded to all criticisms of current dogma. In the past many prominent scientists, such as Rutherford, have suppressed new ideas that didn't fit their paradigm ("The energy produced by the atom is a very poor kind of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine." Ernst Rutherford).
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It seems to me that simple radar or laser ranging data from a satellite would prove beyond doubt that the earth is not expanding. Even geologically slow crustal movement would be evident with the decades-long data sets we currently have in-hand.
As I recall, our moon missions have deposited devices to do just that. They probably already have that data in some format.
It seems to me that simple radar or laser ranging data from a
satellite would prove beyond doubt that the earth is not expanding. Even geologically slow crustal movement would be evident with the decades-long data sets we currently have in-hand.
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They did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:35 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
As I recall, our moon missions have deposited devices to do just that. They probably already have that data in some format.
It seems to me that simple radar or laser ranging data from a
satellite would prove beyond doubt that the earth is not expanding. Even geologically slow crustal movement would be evident with the decades-long data sets we currently have in-hand.
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What does wikipedia know anyway? Good find Troy
They did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:35 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
As I recall, our moon missions have deposited devices to do just that. They probably already have that data in some format.
It seems to me that simple radar or laser ranging data from a
satellite would prove beyond doubt that the earth is not expanding. Even geologically slow crustal movement would be evident with the decades-long data sets we currently have in-hand.
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I find Im having a real hard time with this, knowing, as I do, that we NASA never landed on the Moon. The check is in the mail, my other car is a Mercedes, its only a cold sore... Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:33 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
What does wikipedia know anyway? Good find Troy
They did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:35 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
As I recall, our moon missions have deposited devices to do just that. They probably already have that data in some format.
It seems to me that simple radar or laser ranging data from a
satellite would prove beyond doubt that the earth is not expanding. Even geologically slow crustal movement would be evident with the decades-long data sets we currently have in-hand.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County. I have heard that country folk have strange........................... Mark ________________________________ From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 1:44:25 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth I find I’m having a real hard time with this, knowing, as I do, that we NASA never landed on the Moon. The check is in the mail, my other car is a Mercedes, it’s only a cold sore... Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:33 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
What does wikipedia know anyway? Good find Troy
They did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:35 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
As I recall, our moon missions have deposited devices to do just that. They probably already have that data in some format.
It seems to me that simple radar or laser ranging data from a
satellite would prove beyond doubt that the earth is not expanding. Even geologically slow crustal movement would be evident with the decades-long data sets we currently have in-hand.
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On 1/19/11, Mark Shelton <woodturninginc@yahoo.com> wrote:
Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County.
I have heard that country folk have strange...........................
In Kim's defense, I know for a fact that he does not own livestock.
True, and I have yet to take a 14-year-old plural wife. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth On 1/19/11, Mark Shelton <woodturninginc@yahoo.com> wrote:
Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County.
I have heard that country folk have strange...........................
In Kim's defense, I know for a fact that he does not own livestock. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3390 - Release Date: 01/19/11
Is the key word there "yet"? ;) ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
True, and I have yet to take a 14-year-old plural wife.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Mark Shelton <woodturninginc@yahoo.com> wrote:
Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County.
I have heard that country folk have strange...........................
In Kim's defense, I know for a fact that he does not own livestock.
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----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3390 - Release Date: 01/19/11
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While I can't forecast the future, I think I can pretty safely predict that there are no plural wives, 14-years-old or otherwise in Kim's future. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Troy Davidson Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:51 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth Is the key word there "yet"? ;) ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
True, and I have yet to take a 14-year-old plural wife.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Mark Shelton <woodturninginc@yahoo.com> wrote:
Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County.
I have heard that country folk have strange...........................
In Kim's defense, I know for a fact that he does not own livestock.
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----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3390 - Release Date: 01/19/11
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Isn't your cousin old enough?
Is the key word there "yet"? ;)
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
True, and I have yet to take a 14-year-old plural wife.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Mark Shelton <woodturninginc@yahoo.com> wrote:
Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County.
I have heard that country folk have strange...........................
In Kim's defense, I know for a fact that he does not own livestock.
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Yes, my cousins are old enough. So is my sister. Alas, all are married. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 5:26 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
Isn't your cousin old enough?
Is the key word there "yet"? ;)
++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
True, and I have yet to take a 14-year-old plural wife.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Mark Shelton <woodturninginc@yahoo.com> wrote:
Only in Mount Pleasant. See what happens to you when you move out of Salt Lake County.
I have heard that country folk have strange...........................
In Kim's defense, I know for a fact that he does not own livestock.
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"Brothers, an observatory needs our raising! Quick, to the Amishmobile!" ++++++++++++++++++ Troy Davidson, KF7MTE www.istroyworking.com On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/19/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Yes, my cousins are old enough. So is my sister. Alas, all are married.
When Kim builds his observatory, it will be "raised" by a group of Amish men.
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Funny you should mention "raising" a building. A few months after we moved to Sanpete I actually assisted in a barn raising. It wasn't a traditional wood barn but what they call a "hoop barn." It is constructed of a frame of steel pipe that can be bent in a variety of shapes with a heavy fabric (polypropylene, I think) stretched over the frame. The barn I helped with was about 80' x 120'. It took about 40 of us Amish/Mormons to pull the fabric up and over the frame and anchor it to the opposite side. While I would have had more fun with a mortise-and-tenon wood structure, at least I can honestly say that I've helped raise a barn. I'm afraid the Amish might have difficulty with the concept of a rolling roof. When I get to that point I'll have to ask. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:54 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth On 1/19/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Yes, my cousins are old enough. So is my sister. Alas, all are married.
When Kim builds his observatory, it will be "raised" by a group of Amish men. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3391 - Release Date: 01/19/11
That's really cool, Kim. The equivalent is where so many of the grand old-timers of SLAS (unfortunately not including me) worked so high to build the observatories. -- Joe --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] OT: Barn raising To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:25 PM Funny you should mention "raising" a building. A few months after we moved to Sanpete I actually assisted in a barn raising. It wasn't a traditional wood barn but what they call a "hoop barn." It is constructed of a frame of steel pipe that can be bent in a variety of shapes with a heavy fabric (polypropylene, I think) stretched over the frame. The barn I helped with was about 80' x 120'. It took about 40 of us Amish/Mormons to pull the fabric up and over the frame and anchor it to the opposite side. While I would have had more fun with a mortise-and-tenon wood structure, at least I can honestly say that I've helped raise a barn.
I'm afraid the Amish might have difficulty with the concept of a rolling roof. When I get to that point I'll have to ask.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:54 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Yes, my cousins are old enough. So is my sister. Alas, all are married.
When Kim builds his observatory, it will be "raised" by a group of Amish men.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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I worked a couple of days on the SPOP observatory but for the record I was not high at the time. LOL. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:27:47 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: Barn raising That's really cool, Kim. The equivalent is where so many of the grand old-timers of SLAS (unfortunately not including me) worked so high to build the observatories. -- Joe --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] OT: Barn raising To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:25 PM Funny you should mention "raising" a building. A few months after we moved to Sanpete I actually assisted in a barn raising. It wasn't a traditional wood barn but what they call a "hoop barn." It is constructed of a frame of steel pipe that can be bent in a variety of shapes with a heavy fabric (polypropylene, I think) stretched over the frame. The barn I helped with was about 80' x 120'. It took about 40 of us Amish/Mormons to pull the fabric up and over the frame and anchor it to the opposite side. While I would have had more fun with a mortise-and-tenon wood structure, at least I can honestly say that I've helped raise a barn.
I'm afraid the Amish might have difficulty with the concept of a rolling roof. When I get to that point I'll have to ask.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:54 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Yes, my cousins are old enough. So is my sister. Alas, all are married.
When Kim builds his observatory, it will be "raised" by a group of Amish men.
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Oh, yikes! Of course I meant "hard." And don't you dare make a joke about that, Steve. --- On Thu, 1/20/11, sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> wrote:
From: sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: Barn raising To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 1:29 PM
I worked a couple of days on the SPOP observatory but for the record I was not high at the time. LOL.
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>
To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:27:47 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT: Barn raising
That's really cool, Kim. The equivalent is where so many of the grand old-timers of SLAS (unfortunately not including me) worked so high to build the observatories. -- Joe
--- On Thu, 1/20/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net>
Subject: [Utah-astronomy] OT: Barn raising To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:25 PM Funny you should mention "raising" a building. A few months after we moved to Sanpete I actually assisted in a barn raising. It wasn't a traditional wood barn but what they call a "hoop barn." It is constructed of a frame of steel pipe that can be bent in a variety of shapes with a heavy fabric (polypropylene, I think) stretched over the frame. The barn I helped with was about 80' x 120'. It took about 40 of us Amish/Mormons to pull the fabric up and over the frame and anchor it to the opposite side. While I would have had more fun with a mortise-and-tenon wood
structure, at least I can honestly say that I've helped raise a barn.
I'm afraid the Amish might have difficulty with the concept of a rolling roof. When I get to that point I'll have to ask.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:54 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Expanding Earth
On 1/19/11, Kim Hyatt <kimharch@cut.net>
wrote:
Yes, my cousins are old enough. So is my sister. Alas, all are married.
When Kim builds his observatory, it will be "raised" by a group of Amish men.
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Anybody who has ever looked through a 24" or larger Dob has been "high" while observing...
"Wow, man...the colors!" "That's Alberio" "Tracers!" "Uh, we are in the middle of a meteor shower" Dan On Jan 20, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 1/20/11, sfisher01@comcast.net <sfisher01@comcast.net> wrote:
I worked a couple of days on the SPOP observatory but for the record I was not high at the time. LOL.
Truly these are the latter days.
Steve just wrote "LOL"....
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-- Daniel Holmes, danielh@holmesonics.com "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin
I mentioned before about the concept that because of quantum effects black holes may not form. The source is Scientific American, "Black Stars Not Holes", October 2009. See below quote from the issue: "Thus, experience tells us that matter following the laws of quantum mechanics always seems to find new ways of delaying gravitational collapse. Although any of these roadblocks may be overcome (a typical stable configuration can always be made unstable by adding enough matter), each process that delays collapse provides additional time for the quantum vacuum's negative RSET to pile up and become significant. This RSET could take over the task of counterbalancing the gravitational pull, and because its repulsion may increase without limit, it can stop the matter's collapse to a black hole forever. Black Stars The resulting bodies would be the new kind of object we have named black stars. Because of their extremely small size and high density, they would share many observable properties with black holes, but conceptually they would be radically different. They would be material bodies, with a material surface and an interior filled with dense matter. They would be extremely dim because light emitted from their surface would be very redshifted-the light wave greatly stretched-in traveling from the intensely curved space near the black star to distant astronomers. In principle, astronomers could conduct complete astrophysical studies of black stars because no event horizon would present an obstacle." Clear Skies, Don
Very interesting, Don. Would one have something like an event horizon where time slows down? --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> wrote:
From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 1:36 PM I mentioned before about the concept that because of quantum effects black holes may not form. The source is Scientific American, "Black Stars Not Holes", October 2009. See below quote from the issue:
"Thus, experience tells us that matter following the laws of quantum mechanics always seems to find new ways of delaying gravitational collapse. Although any of these roadblocks may be overcome (a typical stable configuration can always be made unstable by adding enough matter), each process that delays collapse provides additional time for the quantum vacuum's negative RSET to pile up and become significant. This RSET could take over the task of counterbalancing the gravitational pull, and because its repulsion may increase without limit, it can stop the matter's collapse to a black hole forever.
Black Stars
The resulting bodies would be the new kind of object we have named black stars. Because of their extremely small size and high density, they would share many observable properties with black holes, but conceptually they would be radically different. They would be material bodies, with a material surface and an interior filled with dense matter. They would be extremely dim because light emitted from their surface would be very redshifted-the light wave greatly stretched-in traveling from the intensely curved space near the black star to distant astronomers. In principle, astronomers could conduct complete astrophysical studies of black stars because no event horizon would present an obstacle."
Clear Skies,
Don
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Joe, you know what I like about you? Your sense of humor.
Here is mine. "Thank You Very Much" Elvis Very interesting, Don. Would one have something like an event horizon
where time slows down?
--- On Fri, 1/21/11, Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> wrote:
From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 1:36 PM I mentioned before about the concept that because of quantum effects black holes may not form. The source is Scientific American, "Black Stars Not Holes", October 2009. See below quote from the issue:
"Thus, experience tells us that matter following the laws of quantum mechanics always seems to find new ways of delaying gravitational collapse. Although any of these roadblocks may be overcome (a typical stable configuration can always be made unstable by adding enough matter), each process that delays collapse provides additional time for the quantum vacuum's negative RSET to pile up and become significant. This RSET could take over the task of counterbalancing the gravitational pull, and because its repulsion may increase without limit, it can stop the matter's collapse to a black hole forever.
Black Stars
The resulting bodies would be the new kind of object we have named black stars. Because of their extremely small size and high density, they would share many observable properties with black holes, but conceptually they would be radically different. They would be material bodies, with a material surface and an interior filled with dense matter. They would be extremely dim because light emitted from their surface would be very redshifted-the light wave greatly stretched-in traveling from the intensely curved space near the black star to distant astronomers. In principle, astronomers could conduct complete astrophysical studies of black stars because no event horizon would present an obstacle."
Clear Skies,
Don
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No event horizon, but highly compressed - light can still escape. This also solves the problem of an infinity small singularity that classical General Relativity predicts. I have always thought that quantum effects would prevent such a condition. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:49 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes Very interesting, Don. Would one have something like an event horizon where time slows down? --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> wrote:
From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 1:36 PM I mentioned before about the concept that because of quantum effects black holes may not form. The source is Scientific American, "Black Stars Not Holes", October 2009. See below quote from the issue:
"Thus, experience tells us that matter following the laws of quantum mechanics always seems to find new ways of delaying gravitational collapse. Although any of these roadblocks may be overcome (a typical stable configuration can always be made unstable by adding enough matter), each process that delays collapse provides additional time for the quantum vacuum's negative RSET to pile up and become significant. This RSET could take over the task of counterbalancing the gravitational pull, and because its repulsion may increase without limit, it can stop the matter's collapse to a black hole forever.
Black Stars
The resulting bodies would be the new kind of object we have named black stars. Because of their extremely small size and high density, they would share many observable properties with black holes, but conceptually they would be radically different. They would be material bodies, with a material surface and an interior filled with dense matter. They would be extremely dim because light emitted from their surface would be very redshifted-the light wave greatly stretched-in traveling from the intensely curved space near the black star to distant astronomers. In principle, astronomers could conduct complete astrophysical studies of black stars because no event horizon would present an obstacle."
Clear Skies,
Don
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Maybe someone should present this at a meeting.
No event horizon, but highly compressed - light can still escape. This
also solves the problem of an infinity small singularity that classical General Relativity predicts. I have always thought that quantum effects would prevent such a condition.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:49 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes
Very interesting, Don. Would one have something like an event horizon where time slows down?
--- On Fri, 1/21/11, Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> wrote:
From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 1:36 PM I mentioned before about the concept that because of quantum effects black holes may not form. The source is Scientific American, "Black Stars Not Holes", October 2009. See below quote from the issue:
"Thus, experience tells us that matter following the laws of quantum mechanics always seems to find new ways of delaying gravitational collapse. Although any of these roadblocks may be overcome (a typical stable configuration can always be made unstable by adding enough matter), each process that delays collapse provides additional time for the quantum vacuum's negative RSET to pile up and become significant. This RSET could take over the task of counterbalancing the gravitational pull, and because its repulsion may increase without limit, it can stop the matter's collapse to a black hole forever.
Black Stars
The resulting bodies would be the new kind of object we have named black stars. Because of their extremely small size and high density, they would share many observable properties with black holes, but conceptually they would be radically different. They would be material bodies, with a material surface and an interior filled with dense matter. They would be extremely dim because light emitted from their surface would be very redshifted-the light wave greatly stretched-in traveling from the intensely curved space near the black star to distant astronomers. In principle, astronomers could conduct complete astrophysical studies of black stars because no event horizon would present an obstacle."
Clear Skies,
Don
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Joe: Maybe interesting but it's impossible to cofirm with observations with out current technologies. To tell the difference between this and the standard model of cosmology would require going down close to the event horizon for a look see. That's too convienently remote for my taste. If you can't test it. It's not science. And this is convienently just out of reach so that it can't be tested for the truth. It would be interesting to see if this has any traction beyond the usual antiscience venues like AM talk radio and crank internet blogs. For now the standard model works just fine for me. DT --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 12:49 PM Very interesting, Don. Would one have something like an event horizon where time slows down?
--- On Fri, 1/21/11, Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> wrote:
From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Black Stars not Holes To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 1:36 PM I mentioned before about the concept that because of quantum effects black holes may not form. The source is Scientific American, "Black Stars Not Holes", October 2009. See below quote from the issue:
"Thus, experience tells us that matter following the laws of quantum mechanics always seems to find new ways of delaying gravitational collapse. Although any of these roadblocks may be overcome (a typical stable configuration can always be made unstable by adding enough matter), each process that delays collapse provides additional time for the quantum vacuum's negative RSET to pile up and become significant. This RSET could take over the task of counterbalancing the gravitational pull, and because its repulsion may increase without limit, it can stop the matter's collapse to a black hole forever.
Black Stars
The resulting bodies would be the new kind of object we have named black stars. Because of their extremely small size and high density, they would share many observable properties with black holes, but conceptually they would be radically different. They would be material bodies, with a material surface and an interior filled with dense matter. They would be extremely dim because light emitted from their surface would be very redshifted-the light wave greatly stretched-in traveling from the intensely curved space near the black star to distant astronomers. In principle, astronomers could conduct complete astrophysical studies of black stars because no event horizon would present an obstacle."
Clear Skies,
Don
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participants (11)
-
Chuck Hards -
Daniel Holmes -
daniel turner -
Don J. Colton -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Joe Bauman -
Kim Hyatt -
Mark Shelton -
sfisher01＠comcast.net -
stormcrow60＠xmission.com -
Troy Davidson