I began using binoculars for astronomy long before I joined a club or even met other amateur astronomers so I missed out on a lot of conventional wisdom. No one ever told me that you can't hand hold 20x80 binoculars, and so of course I always have. Bird watching has taught me that sometimes the only view you get is a standing offhand 10-second look. For these I figured out that by working out with 10-pound free weights I could greatly increase my arm and upper body strength. I learned from my 22 rifle that if I can rest an elbow against a solid object, I can double my accuracy, and if I can brace both elbows I can double it again. So I'm inclined to lean against rocks, tree stumps or a car whenever I want an extended view. Children understand this instinctively but middle-aged men consider it undignified. I've hiked up a mountain with nothing in my backpack but a ground cloth and my Haley's Comet era 20x80's and spent the night lying on my back in a depression on the ground bracing my elbows on my knees and watching the milky way wheel by overhead. 25x100's may be too heavy for hand holding but I won't know until I actually try it or meet someone who doesn't know what can't be done. If the view requires a tripod, well that's what telescopes were invented for. Clear Skies DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com