Oh I wish you would just continue to pontificate, you have such an eloquent and intelligent way of putting things. I really hope you will pass your thoughts on to the media. I did just send a letter off to the reporter who wrote the article about Buttars and ID in today's Deseret News. jtcook@desnews.com. I wish you would send her your thoughts too, you are so much more eloquent than I am. That goes for the other posters also, btw. I really think you would be doing the classrooms of Utah and also the nation a huge service by getting your thoughts out there beyond this list. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, I for one really appreciate it. And thanks to Kim for bringing up this off-topic thread. These off-topic thoughtful discussions are actually what I like most about this list. Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> wrote: I don't feel so threatened with folks like South Jordan Mom, Joan C., Michaels K. & C., & Kim H. on this list. The Inquisition will have a fight on it's hands this time around. Kim, contact me off-list and let me know what I can do to support you, including standing beside you on the hill. I agree with all of those who expressed a belief in a higher power starting it all in motion, but that has nothing to do with the process of evolution itself. The problem is that if something can't be tested, it isn't science. Nobody's arguing anybody's right to believe in creationism if they want to, but it simply can't be taught in science class because it isn't. It belongs in theology or philosophy class, as Michael K. pointed out. Soulful, pleading, impassioned debate & circular reasoning isn't enough, you need proof. ANY "theory" that involves "higher power" simply IS NOT SCIENCE. Go ahead and teach it, in it's proper venue, NOT SCIENCE CLASS! The Doug Wright Show touched on this topic today, briefly. I heard, repeatedly, a common misconception held by creationists: That according to evolution, humans evolved from "monkeys". This is blatantly false, a phrase promoted by creationists to cast evolution in a bad light. Actually, the convention is that humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. All forms of life evolved from a common ancestor... How wonderful! What an amazing capacity for change and adaptation does life have, what a truly divine design bequeathed to us ultimately from our Creator. The real irony is that Evolution, Darwinism, speaks of a much more wonderful, intelligent, omniscient Deity than any creationsim/ID "shortcuts"- which are really just disguised attempts to justify "what my daddy told me"- a reinforcement of the "us vs. them" mentality of pan-fundamentalism. Oops, and here I promised not to pontificate anymore. Back on the wagon... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page