The people chaining themselves to trees and jumping in front of whalers are all well meaning people, with many good and valid points. If we can get past the Global warming non-sense we would probably agree on many things. I was a long time member of the Sierra Club, and other environmental groups, I quit when they became dishonest and lied to their members about what they were doing. Why did they lie? One word - MONEY! It is the people behind the tree huggers handling the money for the boats and organizing the events that want the power and control and to a large degree have been successful. It's a rule of business, if I know what is going to happen I can make a fortune. When you are small you have to try to read the signs, when you are large you can make events happen and take advantage of them - like George Sorros does. Just like war, it is the soldiers in the field that pay the price as the generals and politicians and their money people that reap the benefits. In chess they are called pawns. I'm not going to get any further into the politics; this is not the place to discuss the 2002 election. Ultimately if oil runs out or gets low and gets very expensive people will find alternatives, the viability of the oil industry depends on their product being reasonably priced, if it isn't we will all change our life style to adapt, it's called the free market. There are many alternative out there right now, the only reason they are not more commonly seen and used is that gas is still best and cheapest form of energy for cars. When that changes so will the market - it really is that simple. When that changes so will our transportation system. Let the free market work, it's not perfect but it is better then some bureaucrat in Washington deciding on how things should be. If you don't like the oil companies you are free to stop buying their product, you can vote with your dollars, however don't force me to do the same. What you want to do is make everyone live to your standards according to what you think is important, you want to dictate what happens and you are using junk science to justify it. You can live however you want but when you start telling other people what to do and how to live and you've become a dictator. That's what this about. Repeat after me - Follow the money. BT -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stormcrow60@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:04 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Global Warming... Climate Change... Robert said: "These people don't want progress Jon, they want control, Global warming is just a tool to get control." I really do not think that members of Green Peace, risking their lives fighting whalers are looking for global power. I do not believe that people preserving old growth forests by living in trees are going to find their way to the top of the power pinnacle. I do not fancy that environmentalists chaining themselves to bulldozers and standing in front of logging trucks are going to get millions (billions?) in kickbacks, set themselves up in cozy corporate jobs or have ambitions for controlling global affairs. If Al Gore really, truly wanted some kind of power on a global scale, he would have fought tooth and nail against the election that Bush stole from him. But he did not... he meekly conceded his chance at being the most powerful person in the world. Yes, the fossil fuel industry provides us with oil and gasoline... that is their business... and they make obscene profits and receive billions of our taxes in running this business. They also stand in the way of developing renewable energy sources. As fossil fuels become more scarce the fossil fuel industry will make a killing... literally, laughing all the way to the bank, at yours and my expense. Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com