Kim, I think what you’re forgetting is the role of natural selection in this setting. Nearly every mutation is deleterious. Without natural selection in the equation the survival situation would be hopeless. For example, for “sighted” species, mutations that compromise sight would be swiftly dealt with by natural selection. If not, that species would find itself at a distinct disadvantage and would go the way of many species, extinction. However, for a species that finds itself in a completely dark environment mutations to the vision system would not cause any survival disadvantage; they’re not using that system anyway. Mutations would steadily build in the vision systems of these species and natural selection would have little or no input because there would be no selective advantage for these species. This would be the “negative-selection” side of the argument. On the positive side, natural selection would have to kick in selective advantages for maintenance of the eyeless state. Hence, you see organisms with no eyes whatsoever. It takes energy to maintain a nonfunctional system and natural selection would favor those organisms that adapted completely to a dark environment. For example, those organisms you mentioned that had no eyes at all. Eyes, especially non-functional eyes, would be a distinct disadvantage in a totally dark environment. Eyes are soft and easily injured. They are moist and prone to infection. Natural selection (in a completely dark environment) would favor those organisms that got rid of the eyes, completely, and grew some type of protective tissue in its place. Dave On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Kim wrote:
Wow - you guys are real downers today! Is it the inversion weather in SLC? ;-) (It's not much better here in Sanpete - gray and cloudy - but at least we don't get the inversions.)
The following is science related, but not astronomy. Hope y'all don't mind, but you're the smartest bunch of people I know and you may have thoughts that would help me understand something that has been vexing me: While musing about evolution the other night, I began to think about creatures that I've encountered while spelunking, such as eyeless spiders and crickets. These cave critters are not just sightless; they have no eyes. There are fish, crayfish and other troglobites that also have no eyes. The interesting thing here is that such creatures are found throughout the world. Keep in mind that these are in ecosystems that have never had any connection to one another. The ecosystem is too small and the geography too great for that to be possible. My understanding of evolutionary science is that random mutations eventually lead to adaptation specific to the environment, probably as a result of that environment changing. My thought is that it seems extraordinarily coincidental (emphasis on extraordinary) that similar or identical species without contact with one another would experience the same random mutations that would lead to identical outcomes, i.e. new species with no eyes.
I am no creationist by any means, and I am convinced by the overwhelming evidence that Darwin's theories are basically correct. BUT, doesn't this present some significant problems for evolutionary theory?
I would appreciate it if you smart people would share your thoughts about this.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:18 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Privatization (Was: SpaceX ?Secret? Payload)
Depressingly true about the future, Jon. Thanks, Joe --- On Fri, 12/10/10, stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> wrote:
From: stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Privatization (Was: SpaceX ?Secret? Payload) To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Friday, December 10, 2010, 11:59 AM Joe, I whole heartedly agree with you. Forty years ago we were on the cusp of moving in the direction of establishing a moon base. Except for the Soviet Union, no other nation could dream of having the capabilites of space exploration we had at that time. But for some reason we abruptly lost the vision and dreams of what we could accomplish as a nation. Instead, we embraced the concepts of endless war and corporate profiteering at the expense of the space program, American jobs and American ingenuity. The fall of the Soviet Union only accelerated this process. Instead of investing the so-called "peace dividend" into what many Americans thought would usher us into a new world of prosperity, scientific advancement and world stability, it unleashed the free enterprising, military-industrial complex, corporate, finance based economy we have today. Except for military endeavors, we really no longer export anything to the world. Corporate and Wall Street profits were and still are placed well above everything else. Now we find that other nations have attained space programs as effective as ours. These are governments... not private enterprise... that have accomplished this. Private enterprise will only seek tax breaks and seek to feed off the teet of the federal government (you and me). They will reap the profits and we will stand on the sidelines and watch as they benefit once again at the expense of the American taxpayer. And if they fail to accomplish anything, once more, the American tax payer will be left holding the bill. I simply can not imagine any free enterprising company landing a man on the moon... even ten years from now... something the federal government did forty one years ago. So... that being the case, I would prefer the federal government to head the space program, and expand both manned space flight and robotic space exploration. I believe that within the next ten years, the American space program will be surpassed by the ESA, China and perhaps even Japan. We fiddle while Rome burns... and other nations fill the void we leave. But perhaps it is meant to be. Rome did not last forever, and we will not either.
Jon
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