I've got to chime in on a political statement that was made in this thread. It was said that: "The American system states that the majority shall have their way...". The American system does not state this. We are a representative republic, not a strict democracy. A representative republic protects the rights of minorities. If you find yourself in the minority (as we are as dark-sky lovers), your job to get your voice heard. If anyone has any experience with an effective way to get heard, I'm all ears. Mat -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 7:46 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Update Actually, as one who looks diligently for dark-sky sites, I don't think there are many places with that kind of sky in Utah -- a state that probably has less gunky skies than most. Among Bryce's advantages are that it's high altitude and easily reached by thousands of visitors who don't have access to any dark sky. And as the Trib pointed out, the issue is far from one of urban-vs-rural people, with many in southern Utah opposed to the strip mine. But our opinions may not count one way or the other, as the agency is deciding based on criteria far removed from majority rule. Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Update On 12/4/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
For special places like Bryce, preservation should have high priority. I vote to keep the dark skies and all the other advantages of the national park and to protect BLM land where its natural values are high. -- Joe
Dark skies are a priority for a minority of the American public. It doesn't affect the gelological formations of the park one bit. Is the general public wrong? From our point of view, yes, they are. From their point of view, we are nutjobs. The American system states that the majority shall have their way, for better or worse. Democracy is not based on the scientific method or ethical truth. If this mine goes ahead, it may have negative repercussions on wildlife. But wildlife exists in far more places than just in and around national parks, and those areas get no protection. No outrage for those areas/species/eccologies? There are many, many other areas that have skies as pristine as Bryce, they just don't have National Park status and don't have amazing geological formations. No restrooms, no amentities, no Interstate highway leading up to the gates. Could that have something to do with our Groupthink? There is a larger issue afoot here, and for anyone to take a stand on precedent or perceived ethical high ground is probably incomplete, at best. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but polarization is so easy. Resolution to the satisfaction of a majority can be very, very hard. The key to success is convincing the Amercian public of the superiority of your claim. In today's ecconomy, with a shrinking middle class and fewer educated, informed, and environmentally conscious people paying taxes every year, you have a tough row to hoe. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message and any included attachments are from Siemens Medical Solutions and are intended only for the addressee(s). The information contained herein may include trade secrets or privileged or otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing, copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this message in error, or have reason to believe you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and notify the sender by e-mail with a copy to Central.SecurityOffice.Healthcare@siemens.com Thank you