"One thing about scientific data is there is enough of it to garner any conclusion that you want to make of it." I disagree. The vast majority of the scientific data, about 90-95%, are documenting global warming. There doesn't seem to be room here for "any conclusion." As to earth beng a living "creature" I agree. I also agree to its complexity. I submit mankind better learn about that complexity if it, as a species, is/are going to survive. Certainly the earth has been able, in the past, to heal itself, but can it do so with what is happening now? There are those whose believe its already too late, global warming is a given. The earth will stabalize at a higher temperature. Short-lived life forms will adapt. The question now is will mankind survive. Now that's doom and gloom. Here's hoping that scenario is wrong. No matter how much man goes green it will always be too little too late. I disagree. See the previous paragraph. "The USA has done a great job of cleaning up its act." I disagree. See the following link. Please note this was published 15 January 2014. Note specifically Table 2. The USA is Numero Uno in contribution to global warming. Ahead of China, no. 2, by about 275% Nope, the USA is not doing a great job. http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/9/1/014010/article Your comments about moving it to China, I hope, were meant to be humorous,and I did snicker. However, China's air pollution problem is quite serious. In your vein, maybe China will move it to the artic, which will probably be a full-fledged ocean when they get around to it. I stand by my initial comment, I respectifully disagree. As for the many links you posted, you will probably be surprised that I read quite a few of them, part of the reason this post is so late in getting up. One article you posted, about the Olympic National Park Glaciers, clearly documents global warming with dramatic photos of two glaciers at the turn of the twentieth century and now in the twenty-first century. Of particular interest to me was the "History in the Heartwood," www.nps.(whatever) Tree rings are incredibly interesting, for studying the past. Of course there have been periods of drought and good growth seasons in the past, but most of the articles and their research ended around 1975, one went up to 1995, prior to global warming really kicking in. The question is what is happening now, particularly in the 21st century. We can't wait until 2100 to look at tree rings for the past 100 years to see if global warming is real. As Dave posted, the CO2 levels are at unprecedented levels now, never so high in the last million years. What is real and now is there are almost 8 Billion people on the planet. Even if only half that number are burning fossil fuels for electricity, warmth and travel, that is unprecedented in the history of the planet. It is unprecedented for even 50 years ago. To think that has no impact on earth is naive. My two cents worth Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 7:35:15 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] An interesting article One thing about scientific data is there is enough of it to garner any conclusion that you want to make of it. The earth's is a living "creature" and the variables of the total entity are far too complex to jump to conclusions based on even good evidence, much less the over abundance of fallible or misinterpreted "evidence". I guess I have a lot of faith in the earth and its ability to "heal" itself. Yes, mankind is making its indelible mark upon the land and will continue to do so. The ever increasing population growth is only going to make things progressively worse and o matter how hard we try to "go green" and protect the earth from ourselves, it will always be too little too late. I'm not preaching doom and gloom, actually quite the opposite. As long as mankind is on this earth we will find some way to deal with the problems we create. The USA had done a great job of cleaning up its act and it was quite simple in fact, we just moved the pollution to China! Now the big question is- Where is China going to move it? Ok, I'll turn the soap box over to someone else now! :) -Barrett www.FallenStarHunters.com www.BarrettsCustomLeather.com -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Matro Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 10:38 PM To: Brent Watson; Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] An interesting article I'm not sure if anyone has provided the link to this article that was in Scientific American April 2014. My husband just read it and we were discussing it earlier tonight. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-will-cross-the-climate-dange.... It addresses the slowing rate at which the earth's average surface temperature has been increasing. Nancy Matro On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy < utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
This article points out a common occurrence in science. Models that are used to predict the future are notoriously fallible. They must be continually tweaked to make sense. This is the essence of science and the scientific method. Rarely do we get it right the first time.
I bring this up so there can be an intelligent conversation about the topic. There is always way too much name calling and innuendo made by commenters, as can be seen in the comments section of this article. Please, lets have a civil conversation. Without civility there can be no unemotional, fact based debate. I for one would really like to hear the rational facts from both sides of this (unfortunately) hotly debated topic.
Again, please no name calling, and only rational fact based debate.
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