Joan, you left out the busses (and I don't mean kisses). 73 Sent from my iPad
On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:08 PM, CenturyLink Customer <jcarman6@q.com> wrote:
A civil discussion between adults is always worthwhile. There is very little in this post I didn't agree with. :) Well, I'm not much for dog training or 4 wheeling (yet) But don't stress too much about this being not appropriate to the board. You're right, it isn't, but then there have been whole threads that went on for days about tires and Jambo restaurants.
Joan
----- Original Message ----- From: "BWFlowers" <BWFlowers@comcast.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 9:14:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] An interesting article
Personally I think this is a great discussion and I am enjoying it very much. On the other hand I'm not sure that it is appropriate to the astronomy nature of this list. To that end I will keep this short. :) Yes, I was mixing in levity and I'm glad you caught that. More importantly my main point was purposely disguised and that wasn't caught. To clarify it and be intentionally blunt in order to keep this reply short- THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH. There is no way that the earth can sustain even the current population, much less the rate of growth that we are experiencing and not have a profound effect upon it. As long as people are on this planet, they will change the planet. We are already having (small)effects & affects on other planets and heavenly bodies. IF PEOPLE really care about the planet we live on, then people are going to have to limit the size of the population, OR "nature" will do it for us. The environment of the planet has steadily changed over time and always will, with or without mankind's "help". Overpopulation is the real problem. <<--There I said it! China is the only country on the planet that has attempted to do anything about it. At the same time, China is dealing with pollution problems not experienced in most any other country. People on this list sometimes bring up the problems of light pollution, and rightly so. We all would like to see the stars and night sky better, but who is causing the light pollution? I have many, many interests- astronomy is but one. I like meteorites, but recent rulings by the federal government have great curtailed the collection of them on so-called public lands, thus hindering scientist that study them. I like cars, guns, airplanes, wood working, metal working, leatherworking, dog training, physics, 4wheeling and many other things. Because of my diverse interests I have many opinions that don't necessarily agree with one another, but it also gives me insight into other topics and maybe a different perspective. In my perspective- things are way out of whack and balance no matter where you look or what the topic is. No matter what we do or don't do, the earth and universe will still be here long after we are gone, so does it matter that we are here now? Human life is held sacred, by some people and not worth a dime to others. HUMANS are the problem of the earth, but without "us" who would appreciate what the earth and the universe offers? Does a worm care about black holes and supernovas? Personally- I'd really like to know if there is intelligent life elsewhere, if real UFO's exist, where does bigfoot hide out, was life seeded on earth, created or just a pure accident of nature. Astronomy, like so many other scientific disciplines do try to answer those questions, and I am quite interested in the conclusions. As smart as mankind has become, we are still so very ignorant. -Barrett
-----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CenturyLink Customer Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:19 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] An interesting article
"One thing about scientific data is there is enough of it to garner any conclusion that you want to make of it." I disagree. The vast majority of the scientific data, about 90-95%, are documenting global warming. There doesn't seem to be room here for "any conclusion."
As to earth beng a living "creature" I agree. I also agree to its complexity. I submit mankind better learn about that complexity if it, as a species, is/are going to survive. Certainly the earth has been able, in the past, to heal itself, but can it do so with what is happening now? There are those whose believe its already too late, global warming is a given. The earth will stabalize at a higher temperature. Short-lived life forms will adapt. The question now is will mankind survive. Now that's doom and gloom. Here's hoping that scenario is wrong.
No matter how much man goes green it will always be too little too late. I disagree. See the previous paragraph.
"The USA has done a great job of cleaning up its act." I disagree. See the following link. Please note this was published 15 January 2014. Note specifically Table 2. The USA is Numero Uno in contribution to global warming. Ahead of China, no. 2, by about 275% Nope, the USA is not doing a great job.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/9/1/014010/article
Your comments about moving it to China, I hope, were meant to be humorous,and I did snicker. However, China's air pollution problem is quite serious. In your vein, maybe China will move it to the artic, which will probably be a full-fledged ocean when they get around to it.
I stand by my initial comment, I respectifully disagree.
As for the many links you posted, you will probably be surprised that I read quite a few of them, part of the reason this post is so late in getting up. One article you posted, about the Olympic National Park Glaciers, clearly documents global warming with dramatic photos of two glaciers at the turn of the twentieth century and now in the twenty-first century. Of particular interest to me was the "History in the Heartwood," www.nps.(whatever) Tree rings are incredibly interesting, for studying the past. Of course there have been periods of drought and good growth seasons in the past, but most of the articles and their research ended around 1975, one went up to 1995, prior to global warming really kicking in. The question is what is happening now, particularly in the 21st century. We can't wait until 2100 to look at tree rings for the past 100 years to see if global warming is real. As Dave posted, the CO2 levels are at unprecedented levels now, never so high in the last million years. What is real and now is there are almost 8 Billion people on the planet. Even if only half that number are burning fossil fuels for electricity, warmth and travel, that is unprecedented in the history of the planet. It is unprecedented for even 50 years ago. To think that has no impact on earth is naive.
My two cents worth
Joan
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