I spent about 40 minutes tonight with the Lucky Duck 20mw and my Beta laser, trying to convince myself that one was brighter than the other. At first they seemed identical in brightness, so I switched batteries and again they seemed really, really close. By the time I called it quits, however, I was fairly sure that the Ducky was actually just a bit brighter. I have an inexpensive digital light meter on the way so hopefully some numbers can be put to the output brightness. When two different lasers are so close to the same visibility, strictly comparative tests don't have quite the resolution to pick a clear winner. Wayne and I are still trying to pin-down a date for an outdoor, night-time testing session. If you want to include your laser, please let either one of us know that you are interested. Some who I have corresponded with already are favoring a weekend- either a Friday or Saturday night, but I'm good for most any night except Thursdays. Of course, most of us can stay up later on the weekend. I'd like to have data on as many lasers as can be rounded-up. Even different examples of the same model are most welcome. That would yield useful consistency data on particular models. At Chris's suggestion we plan to check current draw, as well. BTW, both are clearly much, much more easily seen (especially under a waxing moon and suburban light pollution) than my non-optimized 5mw unit from ComputerGeeks.com, although that one was under $45. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.