This isn't really scientific, but something interesting that is somewhat related to this topic. I've read a few contracts for college football games and when they talk about TV broadcast rights, the wording is something like rights "throughout the universe", although I can't remember exactly, it is something pretty close to that. I thought it was interesting that even they acknowledge that we are constantly sending signals for other civilizations to pick up (although maybe not that strong) From: Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. I’m of the opinion that that the universe is teeming with life. Plenty of sentient beings included. What I don’t buy is that these other sentient beings have been here or are going to get here any time soon. Andromeda galaxy is quite close, right in our own back yard, so to speak. It’s ~2.5 million light years distant. No one, leaving there today bound for Earth, is going to get here any time soon. Maybe there’s someone else in our own galaxy? Ok, maybe they’re 10,000 light years distant, or 90,000 light years away. No matter how you cut it, the odometer on their spaceship had better have a rollover area for an exponential included. The distance to Andromeda galaxy (in miles…this is for Joe) is ~1.47 X 10^19 (I think). Have a nice trip. We’ll pick up the paper for you until you get back. Dave
On Feb 21, 2015, at 13:54, Siegfried Jachmann <siegfried@jachmann.org> wrote:
Dave assumes that our physics is correct and the distances are too great to traverse. If our physics are correct I would agree. But we need to remember that today's truth replaced yesterday's truth and it will be replaced by tomorrow's truth. I am not smart enough to understand why c should be the ultimate speed of the universe. Maybe space travel isn't such a big deal for beings with 10,000 year life spans. I think certainly there is other life in the universe. It would be interesting to find out what kind of life as log as it doesn't consider us delicious.
On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Joan Carman <jcarman6@q.com> wrote:
Okay Dave, it is obvious you are a pessimist and I am an optimist. You see the glass half empty, I see it half full. We probably both agree there is life, somewhere out there. We may differ on whether that life is sentient (life on earth being sentient is debatable), but we do differ on whether that life will ever have a opportunity to interact with one another. You say no, I say yes ...... I'll just grab the water jug and fill up the glass :)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Gary" <davegary@me.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 7:03:58 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question.
With what we know about galactic distances I think it’s a moot point discussing the scenario. It’s akin to asking, “If I stand on a ladder am I closer to Moon?” Technically, yes, practically, not a chance. Who cares what we beam out into the void. We’ll never get a chance to see these aliens. Likely, our generation would never get a chance to respond to them. People, even the smart ones, fail to remember the enormous distances involved. We’ve had probes out since the late ‘70s and they’re just now passing heliopause. I don’t care what intelligence these aliens possess, they will bump up against physical reality just like everyone else. Within space-time nothing travels faster than light. Getting a massive object to that limiting velocity is not possible. Going any slower doesn’t get one very far in this universe. This is assuming we are dealing with the lifetime of a biologic organism, a pretty safe assumption. Let’s see, what multicellular organism on Earth could make an extended voyage (say two to three thousand years with no technical difficulties (highly unlikely), which, by the way, won’t get one very far even at the speed of light). Oh, yeah, a bristlecone pine. The last time I checked bristlecone pines aren’t great conversationalists nor are they concerned about planetary conquest. As a species we’ve never been visited by aliens nor are we likely to. Throw those signals out into space, put the return address. No one will deliver a reply for a very long time, if ever. They, certainly, will not come in person. This is purely an anthropocentric view, but what’s the point of conquering if one can’t be there in person to reap the reward? This would be a real bummer for a “galactic Viking”.
I love science fiction as much as anyone. However, one must always remember, at least as concerns intergalactic or intragalactic space travel, that it is just fiction.
Dave
On Feb 21, 2015, at 00:43, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
On 21 Feb 2015, at 00:34, Joan Carman <jcarman6@q.com> wrote:
Didn't Chuck post about a scifi story where earthlings were "meat" a while ago?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI
Though I prefer "giant bags of mostly water"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlqp0_a0tE
Grins,
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-- Siegfried
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