I have to agree with Erik, The question is not what creates the highest percentage of C02, it is what is causing the C02 cycle to become unbalanced. For centuries, the oceans and photosynthesis have been able to remove the C02 put into the atmosphere by animal life, volcanic activity, and the oceans (yes they produce a few percent less than they absorb). The increase in C02 from human petroleum based activity, cement production, and deforestation, adds only about 5%. It is hard to believe that 5% can make such a big difference, until you think about interest rates, or overspending your salary by 5% per year, year after year, or gaining 5% of your base weight each year. After a shorter time than you think, you are either bankrupt, or twice your base weight... (Hmm, does this mindset explain why we are so obese... we don't think 5% is a problem... says the pot of indiscriminate color to the kettle of equally indiscriminate color...) Anyway, yes volcanoes produce a lot of C02, and the earth evolved to handle that amount, It is not that petroleum use is the only source, only that it is the straw that is breaking the camels back, and the only straw that we have real control over. Quoting erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net:
Rodger,
The people who study the ice cores say the start of the industrial revolution is clearly recorded in the cores, by a dramatic increases in CO2 levels. They claim it to be a major atmospheric event in relation to CO2 levels. This seems quite compelling. When CO2 accounts for less than 1% of atmosphere, who really knows what levels will harm homeostasis in our biosphere. How fast does carbonate production occur?
My view comes from a biologic POV and biology is ripe with negative human impacts to our environment. Humans can have a profound impact.
Erik
Erik,
You are absolutely right that our stores of hydrocarbons are in fact natures way of sequestering CO2. The fact that we are combusting these and releasing the CO2 in the atmosphere does have an effect on CO2 levels in our atmosphere. One of the biggest contributor to atmospheric CO2 is vulcanism which we have no control. Globally, there exists many very large active volcanoes that collectively contribute significant, (more than man caused) amounts of CO2 into our atmosphere.
The big concern is to not interfere with the natural oceanic thermocline which acts as a conveyor belt to transport mineral saturated waters into the deep ocean floors where the precipitation of carbonate rocks occur. Without this, the CO2 level in our atmosphere would spiral out of control and life on earth would probably come to an end.
Rodger Fry ----- Original Message ----- From: <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Why not just the carbon?
As I understand the scrubbing of CO2 is still on the drawing board and a long way off, and unproven. Are not the coal and oil deposits we are mining and drilling natures method of carbon sequestration? Problem is we are using it, and releasing that sequestered CO2, in a couple hundred years when it took nature billions of years to deposit it. The problem of CO2 emissions is manifest in all aspects of society, we have agriculture products that must be shipped long distances at great energy cost, urban sprawl.... Seems we need basic change in energy production and use. It is a process that will take along time and we should go to renewable energy now and not delay.
Chuck's home garden, charcoal aside, is probably one of the best things individuals can do, grow your own veggies and save energy. Seems wind and solar power are really more proven and do not require storing the waste products. CO2 or spent nuclear. Why is it that Europe wants to send their nuclear waste to the United States?
I hear some people suggesting oil shale is the answer, but I have also heard that it takes a huge amount of water. I doubt we can put more demands on Western water. Seems in the West water is going to be a bigger issue than energy. Also, one of things climate change will effect greatly in that a lot of fresh water is produced from glacier melt. Mt Killimangero is a major source of fresh water in E. Africa and its glacier is all but gone.
Erik
Erik
Hi Rodger,
Thanks for your input on this. It's nice to have a geologist on the list. Just goes to prove that UA knows all.
I downloaded the latest Science Friday podcasts and, by coincidence, one of the segments was on "Deep-Sea Carbon Sequestration" and featured the director of something called the Borehole Research Group.
They talked about liquifying CO2 and pumping it into voids in the ocean floor. The idea is since it's heavier than water it would stay put and eventually react with whatever's down there and turn permanently into chalk. They stated there's room enough in a spot off the NW corner of the us to sequester the next 150 year's worth of the US's CO2 output.
More details here: http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200807255
patrick
On 28 Jul 2008, at 17:41, Rodger Fry wrote:
In the oceans, CO2 precipitates out of water via biochemical & physical action. Many marine organisms absorb CO2 from sea water and use this in forming their shell in the case of mallusks and crustaceons or their colony as in the case of coral.
Chemically, when CO2 rich waters are drawn deep in the benthic areas of the oceans, the pH and temperature conditions are right for the precipication of Calcium and Magnesium carbonates. This forms the minerals Calcite and Dolomite that are the two most common minerals in marine limestones.
Removal of CO2 from the biosphere occurs through photosynthesis in the chloroplasts of plants both marine and sub-aerial.
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