I come from the Missouri and Mississippi flyways where Geese and Ducks literally obscure the sun. Geese will gather where there is open water like the Great Salt Lake, I thought Bear River Refuge was their destination.. I have not ever hit a Duck or Goose with a gun or a car, nor I have seen anything west of the rockies that approaches the midwestern migrations. I will have to dig a little to find the source as I recall it was pro bird group.
Eric, you must not be a waterfowler, other wise you would not make such
a statement about UT being well outside of migratory flyways. Where do you think the ducks and geese come from to available themselves of the Bear River Migratory Bird Refuge? Or, the local shooting areas and/or the private hunting clubs along the East side of the Lake? From the local golf courses? UT is a major byway of the Central Flyway (per "North American Flyways") ranging from "the Northwestern arctic coast, where this _great_ flyway has its beginning, the same territory that sends hosts of migrants down the Mississippi Flyway, but further south, in Canada, the western boundary follows closely the Eastern base of the Rocky Mountains. In Western Montana, however, the continental divide is crossed and the line follows through the _Great Salt Lake Valley_ and then somewhat east of south across the tableland of Mexico." I personally have driven upwards of some 1,300,000 miles, mostly throughout the Western USA. I did hit a low-flying duck just south of Anchorage, but was in a motor home, and feel I would not have hit it if in a passenger vehicle. To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen, or heard of, a goose being killed by a motor vehicle. I will not argue with the word "birds" in your statement, but, if you are meaning waterfowl, I would be interested in your source of reference. Now, that is just my experience. But, in WY, at McFadden, I have seen carcasses of geese killed by the wind turbines there. Poor goose, just following its internal navigation system, does not have a built in sensor for the turbine blades, which are quite deceptive in the speed with which they rotate. My two- bits worth. 73, lh
On 12/5/2011 10:00 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
" I get knocked down but I get up again" just a side note:
Utah is well outside of migratory flyways, currently more birds are killed by automobiles than wind turbines, by several magnitudes.
Mat, I'd like to be hopeful about the goodness of humanity too, but my
okole has been kicked so many times it's just one big footprint. All too often we lose the good fight. But sometimes it's still worth trying. It's why I love the underdog. For example, I know Cory and I are going to lose our battle with PayPal, but we're still going to fight. -- Joe
________________________________ From: "Hutchings, Mat (H USA)"<mat.hutchings@siemens.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Update
Chuck, I'm going to pick out another "red-hot" statement.
I believe that humanity is a noble race. We look at the stars and wonder. We rise above tyranny and despotism. We have conquered many diseases and pestilences. We willing and routinely lay down our lives for the hope of a better tomorrow. We create art and music that moves individuals to tears and action. We write words that form governments which protect individuals.
Yes, there is an "underbelly" to humanity, but if not, then there would be nothing to improve on. Or to remind us that we need to improve.
Yes, I do believe that humans will win the trial that Q puts us through in "Encounter at Farpoint". :)
Mat
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 8:52 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Update
On 12/4/11, Hutchings, Mat (H USA)<mat.hutchings@siemens.com> wrote:
I've got to chime in on a political statement that was made in this thread. It was said that: "The American system states that the majority shall have their way...". The American system does not state this. We are a representative republic, not a strict democracy. A representative republic protects the rights of minorities. I agree with you, Mat, but it rarely turns out that way. I firmly believe that the purpose of a democracy is to protect the rights of the minority. But what the American system "states" isn't what happens in practice much of the time. See the entire message of my posts, not just a statement that glows red-hot when taken on it's own.
I'm being a deliberate thorn in your sides here, folks. I'm not one to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" just because it feels good. I'm trying to get people to see that you could get your butt handed to you on a platter.
The world is a dangerous place. In the eternal struggle between good and evil, evil usually wins, unless good is very, very careful. And even then, it's never a sure thing.
I'm at a place in life where I don't have the time or resources to take a political stand. My life is, of necessity, completely focused on survival with perhaps a few hours per week (or month) of discretionary time. I was socially active quite a lot in my younger days, (contact me off-list for details if interested) and what I learned is that you get slapped down hard almost all of the time if in the minority. I've had to take care of an extended family financially since I was 15 years old, to the detriment of my own career and lifelong, heartfelt interests and desires. I'm pretty sure few of you have had to do the same thing for a period stretching over decades. I'm not complaining, I'm grateful that the universe has allowed me the means to get done what I needed to do, and granted me good health enough to do it, but I'm telling you this so you can call upon the compassion in your hearts and understand that I'm actually, truthfully, not on the opposite side of this issue- I am trying to tell you that you face an uphill battle, and not even having the letter of the law, or a moral high ground, will entirely suffice to win the battle. Humanity isn't a noble race. We are animals, and the animalistic aspects of our nature almost always trump the efforts of those who try to rise above it. Don't expect "the system" to come to your rescue. Quoting the words and ideas of founding fathers and leaders whom we admire won't get the job done. Neither will faith in a 'higher power' alone.
It may get ugly if you are in it for the long haul. Really ugly. Be ready for it.
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