Hi all, I agree we should have open and uninhibited discussions about a dark site (and any other dang topic that comes up!). My personal view is that it's hard to get concensus on anything with a large group and that battles are inevitable when too many are involved -- so if concensus can't be reached, a subset who are serious about it should contribute money, time and effort toward developing the right place. As Chuck said, important aspects are dark skies, security and conveniences. I think we need power and some sort of bathroom facilites. It would be nice to have a level concrete pad to set up on. The tower location was so attractive because it had security and power. If we were to purchase a plot of state land down south somewhere, it probably would be a huge expense to bring in power; I doubt Utah Power would volunteer to put up poles and lines for a bunch of nice astronomers. Of course, a generator would be a good alternative. But I also think SPOC is a wonderful observatory and its value should never be downplayed. SPOC is close enough to SLC to be a haven for the public and the views are great there. -- Joe