Science mixed with politics is always a bad mix. I realize this is one of those divisive issues (I think I spelled that wrong) and I really don't want to fan the flames, but I'm rather surprised by your statement Joe that "so many fine scientists are stampeded into saying humans caused global warming" (esp. given that you are a science reporter). There is pretty much a global consensus among mainstream scientists and respectable scientific institutions that humans indeed are contributing to the warming trend, regardless of what has happened in the past, and regardless of the special interests that drive and fuel the debate (pun intended). Anyway, I find it hard to believe that the vast MAJORITY of scientists, who in fact support that view, are being "stampeded" (and by whom?). Are you sure you don't have your reasoning reversed? There are certainly some scientists that disagree, but those minority are far more likely suspects of being funded by "dubious" business interests. Corporate greed is an ugly thing. Did anyone else notice the news a few weeks back where China is toying with establishing some new unionized labor laws that will protect against child labor abuse? The immediate response from several US companies was that if such a law passes, they threatened to withdraw their factories from China. For similar reasons compaines like 3M operate in 3rd world countries, where pollution controls do not exist. So what if the natives are dying of rare forms of cancer? You can't prove our pollutants cause cancer! And of course there's no EPA around to fine you out of millions in profit or to prove that they indeed do cause cancer. And so it goes... --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
Thanks for your polite reply, Michael.
I've followed the issue closely for years and I have no doubt that global warming is a natural happening. I think humans may affect it, but not much; however, I don't know how to quantify it. I have not seen any good figures indicating how much humans affected it. I have yet to see any calculation about the amount of greenhouse gases expelled by Nature. I guess that makes me a crank or an oil company flak. I suppose we're not allowed to discuss such matters on this site, so fine, thanks, I'll shut up. -- Joe
Oh jeez, can we let this thing go? The science is clear for global warming as a human-affected phenomenon. There are a few cranks and oil company people who have an interest is sowing disbelief, but the debate in the scientific community is now about specifics--not about the overall trends.
The earth is also roughly spherical, not flat. There are no water-sprites in your garden. There is no boogey man under the bed. The pyramids were not built by aliens.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Don J. Colton" <djcolton@piol.com> Sent: Nov 8, 2006 10:40 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Climate chaos?
The history of global warming is a fact that global warming alarmists can't really explain. Warmer climate conditions than we now have existed during the Medieval Warming Period and during the Greek, Persian and the early Roman era. These temperature records are validated both by Sargasso Sea data and Greenland ice cores. Any theory of global warming that attributes most of the current warming to man-made causes must explain why the earth was warmer during these periods.
I think variability of the sun is the main factor controlling global warming with man made influences mainly in the noise of the data. In fact particulate emissions may actually have a cooling effect as seen briefly after 9/11 when flights were grounded and the temperature rose. This may have been a coincidence.
The Clear Sky Clock predicts clear weather in Salt Lake until this evening for the transit of Mercury.
-----Original Message----- From:
utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+djcolton=piol.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of slas@2nerds.com Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:55 AM To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Climate chaos?
Caution: this article may prove to be more satisfying to global-warming cranks than to global-warming believers:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/
nwarm05.xml
The linked "References and detailed calculations" PDF file is a 40-page "force multiplier": if the article pleases you, the PDF file will probably please you more; if the article displeases you, the PDF file will likely increase your displeasure. :-)
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Free Uniden 5.8GHz Phone System with Packet8 Internet Phone Service http://www.getpacket8.net/yahoo2