Information theory may be the death knell for Neo-Darwinism (not evolution) and the Big Bang. Its main premise is that the information in a closed system cannot increase - perhaps a more sophisticated way of saying the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) is always valid. When you start looking at statistical probabilities even the formation of basic proteins cannot have occurred during the currently supposed age of the universe. As Fred Hoyle (who believed in Panspermia) said: "The chances of a single cell forming from blind processes is as unlikely as a whirlwind going through a junkyard and creating a 747". -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:58 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Privatization (Was: SpaceX ?Secret? Payload) I hope I wasn't misunderstood. While I think of myself as a religious person I certainly don't subscribe to much of what is written in religious texts regarding the beginnings of the universe, our solar system, and humankind's role in it all. (I'm most familiar with the Christian Bible and the Book of Mormon. There. Now you know I'm LDS.) Darwinism/natural selection/evolution - whatever you call it provides answers that make more sense to me than the stories "revealed" to farmers and goat herders who probably lacked the sophistication to understand the universe in terms other than allegorical. I also didn't mean to criticize anyone's position on space exploration and whether private enterprise or government should take the lead. Comments I read today just seemed particularly gloomy. Isn't this the season to be jolly? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+kimharch=cut.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:04 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Privatization (Was: SpaceX ?Secret? Payload)
Well having some background in genetics, it is true that random mutations may become successful adaptations many more are failures on that score. I saw this daily in the NICU, it is a rare birth defect that is advantageous. I think the majority of adaptations happen more gradually, IE useless traits gradually disappear. Evolution does not have all the answers but at least the theory has undergone an evolution of its own. Unlike creationism that simply says humans and other life just mysteriously appeared. The truth is life evolved over billions of years and humans are the most complex life from that has evolved to date.
Perhaps we are a downer today but private industry fails do much needed research. It seems rather naive to believe otherwise. Wow - you guys are real downers today! Is it the inversion weather in SLC?
;-) (It's not much better here in Sanpete - gray and cloudy - but at least we don't get the inversions.)
The following is science related, but not astronomy. Hope y'all don't mind, but you're the smartest bunch of people I know and you may have thoughts that would help me understand something that has been vexing me: While musing about evolution the other night, I began to think about creatures that I've encountered while spelunking, such as eyeless spiders and crickets. These cave critters are not just sightless; they have no eyes. There are fish, crayfish and other troglobites that also have no eyes. The interesting thing here is that such creatures are found throughout the world. Keep in mind that these are in ecosystems that have never had any connection to one another. The ecosystem is too small and the geography too great for that to be possible. My understanding of evolutionary science is that random mutations eventually lead to adaptation specific to the environment, probably as a result of that environment changing. My thought is that it seems extraordinarily coincidental (emphasis on extraordinary) that similar or identical species without contact with one another would experience the same random mutations that would lead to identical outcomes, i.e. new species with no eyes.
I am no creationist by any means, and I am convinced by the overwhelming evidence that Darwin's theories are basically correct. BUT, doesn't this present some significant problems for evolutionary theory?
I would appreciate it if you smart people would share your thoughts about this.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:18 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Privatization (Was: SpaceX ?Secret? Payload)
Depressingly true about the future, Jon. Thanks, Joe --- On Fri, 12/10/10, stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> wrote:
From: stormcrow60@xmission.com <stormcrow60@xmission.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Privatization (Was: SpaceX ?Secret? Payload) To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Friday, December 10, 2010, 11:59 AM Joe, I whole heartedly agree with you. Forty years ago we were on the cusp of moving in the direction of establishing a moon base. Except for the Soviet Union, no other nation could dream of having the capabilites of space exploration we had at that time. But for some reason we abruptly lost the vision and dreams of what we could accomplish as a nation. Instead, we embraced the concepts of endless war and corporate profiteering at the expense of the space program, American jobs and American ingenuity. The fall of the Soviet Union only accelerated this process. Instead of investing the so-called "peace dividend" into what many Americans thought would usher us into a new world of prosperity, scientific advancement and world stability, it unleashed the free enterprising, military-industrial complex, corporate, finance based economy we have today. Except for military endeavors, we really no longer export anything to the world. Corporate and Wall Street profits were and still are placed well above everything else. Now we find that other nations have attained space programs as effective as ours. These are governments... not private enterprise... that have accomplished this. Private enterprise will only seek tax breaks and seek to feed off the teet of the federal government (you and me). They will reap the profits and we will stand on the sidelines and watch as they benefit once again at the expense of the American taxpayer. And if they fail to accomplish anything, once more, the American tax payer will be left holding the bill. I simply can not imagine any free enterprising company landing a man on the moon... even ten years from now... something the federal government did forty one years ago. So... that being the case, I would prefer the federal government to head the space program, and expand both manned space flight and robotic space exploration. I believe that within the next ten years, the American space program will be surpassed by the ESA, China and perhaps even Japan. We fiddle while Rome burns... and other nations fill the void we leave. But perhaps it is meant to be. Rome did not last forever, and we will not either.
Jon
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