It's very simple. In some places it is melting and others it is not. For example the ice in the Himalayas is growing and inland Greenland (not the coast so much) it is thinning some what. We hear a lot about Greenland and nothing about the Himalayas, why is that? The Arctic in recent years has receded (although it is advancing again) and in the Antarctic the ice is getting thicker (except in one area). This article proves nothing other than there are some scientists in England that have engaged in bad science and unethical behavior. It is important that people understand that scientists are human and make mistakes, sometimes suffer from bad judgment and are sometime very wrong and most importantly you can't believe everything you hear and read even when it is repeated over and over. Lenin understood the value of repetition and used it great effect, it's a very old political tactic, i.e.: "The debate is over", "all scientists agree", etc. These are buzz phrases of politics, not science. Also as I have said on this board beliefs on this issue are going to be in-line with your politics, if you lean left politically you will believe in the man caused theories, if you lean right you will be more skeptical, in essence for many people it is akin a religious issue, based on faith (because you really don't know or understand the science so you follow those that do claim to know it and you take their position as your own), faith is the basis of religion, not science and I don't like to get into religious arguments as you can never change anyone's religious beliefs by arguments, this is why I don't do the "Link" thing, it's pointless. You will believe what you want to believe facts be damned. No one has said the earth is not warming; it is the cause of warming that is the question. I do have serious issues with some of the methodology used to determine the rate of warming but in general I acknowledge that we have been in warming trend for about 160 years with some ups and downs. I simply don't except that the warming is caused by CO2 emissions. I believe it is natural cycle that has been occurring through-out the planet's history and is more closely related to the Sun then to CO2. If you track temperatures you find it very closely correlates to the Sun's energy output, but correlation is not causality and science needs to continue to study this. On the other hand CO2 is a naturally occurring gas and life on Earth could not exist with out it, in fact more CO2 would not be a bad thing (this is not an argument for more emissions, it's an argument to calm down), it is certainly not a pollutant regardless of what the EPA says. I suspect we are many years away from the debate truly being over, if ever. In the mean time it is important that we don't do anything stupid like pass a Cap and Trade bill that has more to do with making money, growing government and controlling industry then it does with climate. Here the damage will be real, the benefits imaginary. It would like to see this issue de-politicized. Politics is about persuasion, science should be about facts and testable theories and it is only through money that these two disciplines have anything in common. The fact that politics is so heavily enmeshed in this issue should tell you a lot about it. Bob Taylor -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:02 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT - ClimateGate
Finally, the article that proves it is all a hoax. I guess the question remains why is the ice melting?
My understanding from past list administrator statements is that this kind
of post is "okay" here.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/11/24/the_fix_is_in_99280.htm l
Hacked emails from the Climatic Research Unit (Britain's University of East Anglia) appear to implicate leading climatologists with scientific fraud.
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