When Michael posted the original question yesterday I felt that I could "see the future". These discussions happen a lot on the forums and websites I visit. I have tried my hand at astrophotography now three times. First with a Olympus OM-1. Bill Cowles assured me at the time that no one was using digital and that film was the only way to go. You can guess how that ended. Then I tried with a SBIG camera and found myself ruining great observing nights fighting technology. Third I started down the path of video astronomy but decided before I even lit up the first LCD monitor it was not for me. I have come to be very tolerant of peoples different views on what their astronomy hobby is. Many now days are enjoying astrophotography. Dare I say millions? If not, for sure hundreds of thousands. We all know people who build scopes. We know people who talk about scopes and never get out. There are so many ways to enjoy this hobby. The first time someone invited me to a star party where 600 kids and parents were invited I said to my self "yeah right, that is just what I need". Now look at me, it is my favorite part of the hobby. I see valid points from all that has been posted and although I cannot imagine trying astrophotography again, I can surely understand the pure joy that some receive from capturing those photons with the CCD chip. I can understand the pleasure trying to get the very most out of the images with computers. If you love photography and you love any part of astronomy as a hobby, why not? I purchased my dream OTA last year. It was much cheaper than what my brother spends on green fees each year. Heck he probably has more invested in plaid pants and wing tip shoes with spikes than my CGE cost. Michael if you ask me, I think if you have any interest you should try it. You will know very soon if it for you or not. If not let's just sit back and see the pictures that Tyler, Patrick, and others put up. Aren't you glad there are so many ways to enjoy this hobby? Steve
From: tylerallred@earthlink.net To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:11:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] why photography?
Hi all.
Why astrophotography? I take great pleasure in being outside with my equipment on a beautiful clear night, collecting photons that have been travelling through space for eons of time, only to end their journey on my little CCD chip, to be preserved forever in my image. I enjoy the challenge of getting the most from my equipment. I enjoy processing those images to reveal subtle details that exist within the objects. And, I like doing it myself.
I'm sorry Daniel, but I must say that your response to this inquiry was incredibly negative. You are welcome to your opinion, but I can't agree with any of your points. Clearly, astrophotography is not for you, but many people love the hobby. I want to respond briefly to each of your points. Please don't be offended, because all my responses are meant only to offer a very different opinion.
1: "It's all been done before." If we all limited our activities to things that have not been done before, none of us would ever do anything. Virtually everything has been done before, and probably better than I can do, but there is something special about doing things for yourself that appeals to me. I don't care that the Hubble has taken a better image of an object than I will ever take. I still want to give it my best shot to see what I can do with the equipment that I can afford. Do you look through the eyepiece and say, " I already saw the Orion Nebula... why look at it again?..."? I think not. Why is it OK to look at it again, but not to photograph it again? I see little difference.
2: "It's very expensive." Yes it is. So what? Nearly every hobby that I know of is expensive. Flyfishing, boating, four-wheeling, backpacking, computers, audio, travel... and the list goes on and on forever. I do not decide my activities based on expense alone. Certainly, one must examine the costs and make decisions according to their own budget. But this hobby is no more expensive than MANY hobbies. For the cost of a single four-wheeler, a person can get a nice imaging setup and enjoy untold hours of enjoyment out under the stars. For the cost of a trailer and a few four-wheelers, you can have a world-class setup. Hobbies are often expensive, but that doesn't change my enjoyment of them. In fact, spending money for new toys is part of the fun! :)
3: "It's not portable." What? I have taken my imaging equipment to wonderful isolated locations and spent many magical evenings out under the stars enjoying the dark skies and unique atmosphere that remote sites offer. Now, can I carry it with me in a backpack? No. But it certainly is portable enough to bring along in my Toyota. Also, it is true that sometimes things go wrong; but if it was easy, it wouldn't be as much fun. I appreciate the challenge of getting everything to work together in a perfect symphony. :)
4: "Photoshop.... Reality it is not." I can assure you that every object you see in my images is there in "reality". I have already spoken on this topic, so I won't go on too much about it. Stretching data to show faint objects is not the same as painting them in yourself. The objects are there, and they are real. They are emitting light at specific wavelengths that equate to real colors. The relative brightness of objects is inconsequential in many respects. I am always stunned that people think that the whole image is fake because you apply a log transformation to the original data. It is simply an accurate representation of the data, in a non-linear form. When you look at my images, and see the structure of nebulosity in the Bubble Nebula, or a dark lane in the Whirlpool galaxy, I can assure you that you are seeing a "real" object, whose photons were captured and recorded by my "real" camera. That object exists... in reality! I am getting pretty tired of comments to the contrary.
To conclude... I love the hobby. Cheers, Tyler
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:08 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] why photography?
I don't do astrophotography for several good reasons. I do photography of birds, sunsets, bunny rabbits, even rocks and trees, but I won't do astrophotos beyond a 1 minute time exposure on an DSLR.
1: It's all been done before. Google up and NGC number and you will have a few excellent, dozens of good, and hundreds of fair photos of any object that lends itself to photography. The Messier and Hershel catalogs have been covered. There is nothing new to photograph except an occasional comet and then the internet will bring you those with a vengence.
2: It's very expensive. Photos that I find interesting these days are of obscure galaxies. These are done with 20" RC's and one use cameras on megabuck mounts with exposure times of 30 hours plus. So the cutting edge is "out there" in the expense range of a 30 foot sailboat. A good visual system that will keep you involved for years comes in at the price of a row boat.
3: It's not portable. I remember going to the mountains with an astrophotographer. At midnight after I had visually seen dozens of objects, he was still struggling with cords, balky software and alignments. He lamented, "I've been here 4 hours and I haven't even started taking picture yet."
4: Photoshop. The pictures aren't reality any more than an advertisement is a accurate picture of the product or the sexy model holding it. Her mole has been removed, her bust enlarged, and her hips slimmed down. Everyone has the tools to make convincing lies. Reality it is not.
DT --- On Mon, 5/10/10, Michael Vanopstall <opstall@math.utah.edu> wrote:
From: Michael Vanopstall <opstall@math.utah.edu> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] why photography? To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 5:08 PM Hello, all --
Together with Chuck, I can take a little responsibility for the horrible weather. I bought a pair of Celestron 15x70 binoculars this week (yes, the price of $72 at Clark is good, but not as good as the price of $45 with free shipping that I got from Amazon). I'm going to be in the middle of nowhere for a lot of the month of May, but not able to take my scope with me.
Now that the semester is over, I've been getting all reflective. I think I can explain why I like to go out and do astronomy related stuff. I'm not much into astrophysics, even though as a mathematician, I probably should be. I don't sketch. I really like being in the middle of nowhere, in the dark. I like meeting goals, working through lists. If you've read the ultra-saccharine "Hidden Treasures" by Steven O'Meara, I'm definitely the grab-and-run sort of sky pirate. None of my eyepieces is very good at all, and my 25mm one is the best, so I don't dwell on objects; just collect. The experience of the outdoors, and just finding things (like doing a puzzle) is fun for me.
I'm curious if anyone (on these cloudy nights) could give a succinct explanation of what is interesting about astrophotography. I have not (and will not) been drawn in, and I'm curious about what interests others.
Thanks.
---- Rev. Michael A. van Opstall Department of Mathematics, University of Utah Office: JWB 313 opstall@math.utah.edu
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com