Yes, of course Patrick is right, I was joking about not knowing what the metric system is; I can even convert metric figures into our own system, usually. But it's time for metric-centrics to realize that they lost that battle long ago. And they lost with good reason, in that it's not native to our country and nobody should try to foist a foreign system onto us. If the rest of the world does it differently, so what? I haven't seen any big loss to our economy because of it. If it's easier to figure out volume using metric, again, so what? I'll happily use fluid ounces instead of mm. My point is, this is a little like the rotten attempts at Indian schools -- which children from reservations were forced to attend -- to make students speak English, which included punishing them for using their own languages. The argument undoubtedly was made that the children couldn't succeed in America if they didn't understand English. It was still a cruel practice and has been pretty much universally contemned. Well, there's not even that argument to be made for metric: we do very well, thank you, without using it.Thanks for letting me blow off steam -- Joe PS: That is a great picture of Pahvant Butte and a fine write-up. I've hiked inside it, and I remember the remains of some huge windmill are there.