I fully agree that we enter the park with no special privileges and courtesy should be standard operating procedure. The people that staked out Bryce Point were out of line if they confronted visitors and/or rangers over an imagined right to darkness. We're very fortunate to have such a great relationship with Bryce. I hope the few don't screw it up for the many. Enjoyed seeing you down there btw. Hope that it works out for you. Clean your shorts ☺ Sig On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
My uniform hasn't arrived. I have no tie yet to loosen. How about "public" versus "private" star parties? Some of the problems during the astrofest and ALCON appear to have been due to that people who hadn't coordinated through the Park or Don Colton just thought they could show up for their own private observing session, unhindered by inquisitive visitors, headlights and nosy park rangers.
Loosen your shorts. ;-)
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:28 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bryce times
Done correctly, every star party is an educational event. That doesn't keep it from being a star party. Loosen your tie. :) ☺
Siegfried
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
I know, we like to call it a star party but the fact that it is so controlled makes it an educational event. That's what the Park says and I'm going to stand by it.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 12:16 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bryce times
It's a star party :)
siegfried
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Joe, the Park hasn't complained at all. The comments I shared were from individual employees who were shocked by the rude treatment from a handful of visitors, easily identified as amateur astronomers by the equipment that they carried or set up in the Park. After the particular incident at Bryce Point, the offending visitor had the nerve to ask the ranger for his name so that the visitor could lodge a complaint!
The astronomy festival isn't a star party but an educational service that the Park offers, with the help of SLAS, for which I know the Park is very grateful. Unfortunately, parking near the visitor center is limited and the overflow lot we use for public viewing during the festival must be available during the day. I know it's a pain to set up each night, but I don't know of anywhere here (or in any other park, for that matter) where one could leave equipment set up. It pays to bring a smaller or at least less complex telescope for the festival. I didn't even set up my stuff on Wednesday so that I could operate Geoff Goins' scope, the 26-inch that was at the far end of the parking lot. It was a drag, but someone had to do it. ;-)
From the for-what-it's-worth department, you can only imagine how many regulations and rules that have to be met to be able to pull this off. You all probably met the Park's safety officer, but you may not know that a formal safety plan, as well as other documents, has to be prepared, submitted, and approved by Washington to be able to do this. Perhaps that's one reason other parks don't offer anything near what Bryce has been doing for more than a decade.
Kudos to Great Basin NP for trying. Way to go, Kelly.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 9:50 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bryce times
It seems to me the park service did give special consideration to ALCON, they did open up Rainbow Point and allowed driving on a road normally closed. It does not seem to me anyone parked near a road can have much expectation of no headlights, it is not legal to drive without them. Those at the park not for ALCON also have rights.
I went to a winter star party in the Everglades one year and a attendee set up a tent (poor idea with deadly snakes around) and was rousted by a Park Ranger wielding a pistol (yes it was in his hand), camping was not allowed at the site. Sounds like the Rangers acted with restraint.
Seems to me incidents like that could lead to no more special access.
Kim, I'm surprised that anybody with a telescope expected free entrance to
the park. I know Cory and I were treated no differently than anybody else in terms of paying for park use. Because I'm past 62 I was able to buy a senior pass that allows us free entry to any NPS unit -- but so could any American citizen of the right age. (Ha! Felt good to say "right age".) I don't think Bryce has a lot to complain about from ALCON. Frankly, it seems to me that amateur astronomers aren't without rights as park users too. After all, we're Americans and we pay to get into the park like anybody else.
Something that irritated me is that although we performed heroically to help the public by giving free telescope views at the overflow parking lot, staying up all night to do this for visitors, we were not allowed to keep scopes set up so they would be available the next night. For some that meant set up at evening, tear down in the morning, set up the next evening, etc. Some of us have scopes that are heavy and difficult to set up.
Another reason the Park Service doesn't have a lot to complain about is because, in addition to the free service we provided to literally thousands of visitors and the entrance fees collected from all of us, the Astronomical League donated 10 percent of the money from the event to the park.
Daniel, I really don't know what you're complaining about either. Nobody I know has been treated rudely by SLAS folks at star parties. Don't forget, this is a club of amateurs who are trying to do a service for people -- not employees who should be graded on this picky aspect or that attitude. We're all different, but I think SLAS does a fine job of helping people appreciate the heavens. Now I'll jump off my soapbox.
-- Thanks, Joe
________________________________ From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bryce times
Kim:
SLAS members are not immune to rudeness.
When I first joined I went to so called private star parties and thought that "these people don't get out much". Later I came to the sad conclusion that "These people NEED to get out MORE..... but not with me".
The worst offenders are often the most experienced. Including many former SLAS officers. Sadly they can be most inconsiderate.
DT
From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bryce times
All:
I started work at Bryce Canyon as the "Historic Structures and Landscapes Specialist" the week before the Bryce Astro Festival and the concurrent ALCON. I knew about the possibility of this job back in March, so I hesitated to volunteer to help with either event, except to commit to the four nights of public viewing for the Astro Festival. I lost my internet access at my place in Tropic and I'm only rarely able to respond to this group, at least until I have Patrick change my email address. Today I took time to clear out the nearly 200 messages that had accumulated on this account - not all of them spam (unless I count some of your comments. ;-) So forgive me for re-hashing what is by now old news, but I thought some of you might be interested in what I've learned as a Park employee.
First, Richard Blake is a great guy to get to know and I consider him a good friend. We all make mistakes, and if Richard has at any time appeared to be overbearing or rude I would attribute it to the stress of what he's doing. If I were judged on the basis of my occasional slips I would not look too good. Anyway, I enjoy his friendship and I look forward to working with him, Kevin, Geoff and the other "interp rangers" throughout the summer. Since the astronomy programs are not in my job description I can volunteer to help. If they were part of my job description, I couldn't volunteer. Funny federal regs - go figure.
Some of you have alluded to a run-in at Bryce Point (not the venue for any official events during that week) between some telescope users and other Park visitors. Let me give you some more background. The people who sit patiently and cheerfully at the entrance/fee stations in the hot sun and cold rain were treated VERY poorly by some people who arrived with telescopes and expected free entrance and other accommodations by the Park. The law enforcement folks who told me about this emphasized that they did not seem to be SLAS members but perhaps ALCON visitors who did not know the rules. (Funny, I thought that treating people kindly and with respect was a rule we all learned by Kindergarten.) It was, apparently, some of these people who set up scopes at Bryce Point. When one of the LE rangers went out to talk to them, I believe after receiving complaints about their behavior to other visitors, they were EXTREMELY rude and abusive to the ranger. The ranger, who is one of the nicest people I've met here (see below), lost his temper - I was told for the first time in his career - due to the behavior of these astro visitors. So, a handful of very rude and obnoxious people gave all of us a bit of a black mark. Again, the LE rangers did not blame SLAS but I felt a bit responsible as an amateur astronomer. I wish we (not WE in any official capacity) knew who was responsible. We could ask that they never again come to Bryce, SLC, SLAS events or Utah. We already have enough screwballs here, right?
For the record, everyone I've met here is very nice. These are great people who do more than you can imagine, for low pay and sometimes for seasonal or otherwise insecure employment. Even my job, though full-time, is not permanent. In four years when the funding runs out, so does my job. But in the meant time, I would be very disappointed if I heard that any of you were in the neighborhood and didn't look me up. Come anytime and we'll go observe together under some of the greatest skies I've ever known.
Sorry to take so much time, but there's an unrelated matter I want to let you all know about: Yesterday morning I got a call from long-time SLAS member Dwight Ball. He is in intensive care at the VA hospital. His heart is failing him and he says that he is likely to need a transplant in a few months. I was rather alarmed by his call, as it seemed that he had called to say goodbye - he didn't expect to live. I called him back last night and was pleased to speak with him and know that he's still with us. He was in better spirits and sounded better, too, but he will be in the hospital for at least another week. If any of you who know him, or even those who don't want to give him a call or go see him, I'm sure that he would appreciate it. He doesn't have a lot of family, so his SLAS family is very important to him. His cell phone number is 801.336.0635. He can take calls at the hospital, but I don't know in what room to find him. Take a moment if you can to cheer up another good friend.
If any of you want to email me, my email at the Park is kim_hyatt@nps.gov.
Take care all, Kim
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3755 - Release Date: 07/09/11
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-- Siegfried _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3760 - Release Date: 07/12/11
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